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[dittoalex]

You may not.

Zero tolerance for personal attacks. This is a technical forum. Not amused with the lack of respect for valued contributors trying to offer help. Unlocking topic and leaving that rude post as-is for context.

I think you abused your power to ban MVetter due to your personal drama with Diginow.  I will now frequent this forum less due to it having less technical information from a contributing member.  Please turn in your mod card.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I would caution anyone reading this thread that there’s a lot going on here, and I’m referring above to toxic personal dynamics that are already pushing me out of contributing to the Zero community.

While I’m not a moderator or opining on the moderation rules, I don’t feel safe knowing who might come after me online in this community any more.

The above interaction was personal harassment using an account normally only used for customer service. That’s why I replied how I did.

[Electric Cowboy]

You may not.

Zero tolerance for personal attacks. This is a technical forum. Not amused with the lack of respect for valued contributors trying to offer help. Unlocking topic and leaving that rude post as-is for context.

I think you abused your power to ban MVetter due to your personal drama with Diginow.  I will now frequent this forum less due to it having less technical information from a contributing member.  Please turn in your mod card.

Regardless of weather or not this was an abuse of power by shattow to ban MVetter (shattow notified me immediately after banning him), MVetters choice to make the comment led to his being banned. There has been tremendous trouble between MVetter and Brian T. Rice due to incidents between Brian and MVetters father, Craig Vetter who was in a terrible accident and has been recovering from a TBI ever since. The name calling and sheer rudeness presented to the vetter family as a whole, especially Craig, who tried their best to help Brian, is shameful. For this reason, I understand the reasons behind MVetters actions and very clearly understand how he feels. Calling a TBI patient names and belittling them while recovering from brain damage for not being their former self is shameful and has lead to Brian not being allowed back on the vetter ranch, where DigiNow HQ operates. It also resulted in a much more detailed process before allowing others onto the ranch. Brians actions have damaged our communities image with many people including Zero them selves. I have had to appologise on his behalf for his behavior to Zero because he is a customer of mine and his behavior somehow reflected upon me.

I myself have lost my cool publicly with Brian on atleast 2 occasions, however, MVetter has calmed me down and suggested that I apologize or remove the posts. Once again, I appologise for these times. Generally speaking MVetter is my saving grace in public keeping me from being a dick more often than not, and cleaning up my messes after I make them. My posts have been  MUCH MUCH WORSE than anything MVetter has ever done. He is becoming a very valuable member of our community and learning quickly that not everyone here is a balanced individual... I mean he works with me so he probably sees it daily

I find Brian to be turning into a toxic figure in our community which is a shame considering how much he helped in the early days. This is a shame, but his outbursts of "wanting to burn the community to the ground" quote from him, and my personal conversations with him where he has said he no longer wants to be a part of the community and thinks that we should all be paying him for his time make me wonder about his genuineness. Unfortunately he has personal and mental issues which he is working very hard to get through right now. Hopefully in time, he will recenter and perhaps become a positive contributing member of the community and not try to shame others for also being flawed. None of us is perfect.

While I can not disagree that this was a rude comment, I would like to request leniency and an unbanning of MVetter. I would like to request this on the grounds that the two of these boys have personal issues with eachother. I would also like to make note that I have and will further discuss this with him in person. I have spoken with both of them in the past about the issue between them.

I also spoke with moderator friends at forums orders of magnitude larger than ours here, they informed me that the corrct decision for a moderator when banning a user is to also remove any posts which resulted in the banning. I linked them to the thread here and they said they thought the message : 

Unlocking topic and leaving that rude post as-is for context.

Was an inappropriate action for the moderator to take. They said a few other things which I will not mention about it as well. Feelings are difficult things to deal with, as humans we need to learn this, and as good people we need to learn that we all make mistakes and regret things we have said.

I do stand behind MVetter and support him even when he makes a mistake because I know he is highly intelligent, and a kind hearted soul. I have watched him drop his entire life and stay by his fathers side for weeks at a time with no notice while in the hospital. I have myself had arguments with him where in the end we both apologize and shake hands.

If MVetter is not reinstated however, I too will go the way of the dittoalex. There is a reason the important contributor count is going down as time goes on. And the forum is about to lose several without fixing this.

I do not want to abandon this forum, please reconsider the heavy handed response, or ban me as well as I have said and done much worse.

Thank you,

Brandon Nozaki Miller

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

May I suggest that DigiNow stop relying on personal forum accounts to conduct customer service and outreach.

You would not be speaking up for MVetter unless you had a business stake in his account being available here.

Or may I suggest that harassment like this is just actually unacceptable for anyone let alone a business partner.

[Electric Cowboy]

May I suggest that DigiNow stop relying on personal forum accounts to conduct customer service and outreach.

You would not be speaking up for MVetter unless you had a business stake in his account being available here.

Or may I suggest that harassment like this is just actually unacceptable for anyone let alone a business partner.

Unfortunately your toxic behavior is driving others away. I strongly suggest you thoroughly read and consider my above post. Here is my interaction with Terry Hershner about this topic.



I strongly feel you are not only alienating yourself with this attempt to disguise malice as weakness and harassment. You have expressed to me directly you hated the community and wanted to see it burn.

It is posts like this and people like you that drive contributors like me and Terry out. So far no one I have checked with agrees with you, and sadly most of them express a general dislike for you and your attitude. I press everyone very hard to be nice, but I think your attitude and comments against our community have pushed you out of what others are able to accept.

This is the same thing I expressed to you when we met about why you had been pushed out of Zero and why no one wanted to work with you.

And it is the same reason you have been abandoned by Corbin.

And it is the same reason my company distances itself from you.

Even the owner of the Unofficial Wiki expressed the only reason you are tolerated is for the free labor.

Brian, I truely want to see the best for you, but you make it very difficult for others to want to support you. I am saying this as a person, not a business. You already expressed to me you do not consider me a friend, nor do you have any interest in becoming my friend, so I can only assume the reason you want my advice each time we meet because you respect my position and view on the community.

Please take what I have said as a hard data driven response, and give it the consideration it deserves. I do not want to see you pushed out of or running away from the last bit of electric motorcycle space you have a voice in. But if you don't grow up unfortunately I think that is what will happen.

Also, I want to clarify, I am sooooo far from being perfect or grown up, but as we all are, I think I too am working hard on growing and becoming a better person. I encourage you to do the same.

[Electric Cowboy]

just added the image above. made a mistake in the bb code link.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

So, you're posting my discussion of this thread with Terry here, publicly. I don't mind because I don't think it shows what you suggest, but it feels very irresponsible and an unnecessary breach of trust.

The reason I'm no longer part of the Facebook owners group is that you've decided that any criticism of you is a personal and a business attack.

I cannot think of a clearer way to express why conducting business through personal accounts is inappropriate.

I don't feel safe in the Facebook group, because you, Brandon Nozaki Miller, are an administrator of that group, which requires that business be conducted through personal accounts, and are conducting business under your account and Morgan Vetter's as well.

You, Brandon Nozaki Miller, are exhibiting personal issues in public as a representative of your business, and turning disagreement into conflict unnecessarily, and appropriating discussions with others for your own purposes.

I am scrupulous to spend energy to ensure I am not revealing what others discuss with me in confidence, or if I discuss something concerning, to leave the source anonymous, but you show no such compunction.

I would like to say to the public here, that I have been trying my best, and am consistently rewarded with harassment. My role here has been to appreciatively listen to the experts and compile what knowledge is reliably transmittable into a public repository of writing. My reason to ask questions and raise criticisms is entirely for that purpose, and I would like the public to appreciate that any "bitchiness" arises from running out of patience with the type of behavior seen above.

[oobflyer]

I used to watch this forum constantly - been an EV rider for 11 yrs now. Switched to the Facebook Page mostly because it's easier to use.
I just came here today to see what people were saying about Lightning/Ducati/ and the new Zero SR/F.
I might have a unique perspective as a non-technical consumer of all things EV - as well as a member of the EV community.
I have ridden many times with Brian T and found him to be one of the nicest people I've ever met.
I have purchased the Supercharger from Brandon and found him to be one of the nicest (and helpful) people I have ever met.
Shaddow personally came to my house to help me set up my new Supercharger - again one of the nicest people I've met (and very passionate about EV's).
I have met Morgan several times, as well as his family - he and his family are some of the nicest people I've ever met.
I have ridden with Terry Hershner many times - he has been to my place here in the Central Valley - he is one of the nicest people I've ever met.
I think that the bigger picture of EV promotion/adoption/advancement has been temporarily over-shadowed by personal disagreements between smart guys with strong personalities.
I think that the bigger picture will prevail and - call me an optimist - I think we can all get along for the betterment of the EV world.

[NEW2elec]

For what it's worth.  (not much)
I think MVetter should remove a very childish post that was beneath him.
Post an "I'm sorry" and both he and Brian should agree not to engage directly or insinuate past issues of a personal  nature on here.
Both are very valued minds on here and I would hate to lose either one of them (Cowboy as well) over keyboard insults.

Brian I hope you could forgive him and I ask Shadow to reinstate MVetter if he agrees to drop this matter and future comments of this nature.  All parties are better than this.

New things are coming out all the time now and I'm excited for the future lets enjoy bigger and better things past a bumpy start.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I want to point out that I've been threatened and harassed here and on the Facebook owners group by both current representatives of DigiNow, and that I've been privately harassed and insulted before on various occasions over the last 3 years.

All the while, I helped promote DigiNow by writing documentation, providing feedback from testing, and contributing material to the unofficial manual which indirectly or directly aids DigiNow's efforts.

These are not personal disagreements. These are business situations that were handled unprofessionally both internally and externally by DigiNow.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'll try to address a selection of the implications made above:
- The owner of the zeromanual.com site is also demonstrably a regular harasser of other forum members on this site and in the Facebook group.
- Brandon's characterization of the situations above is weaponized to protect his ego. This is part of the pattern of harassment.

I will not reveal anything further, as I feel that the statements above have been self-incriminating, with me making minimal claims I feel confident in supporting. However, I'd really rather leave the community than litigate any of this in public or formally. But that's how the harassment succeeds.

[Electric Cowboy]

Brian, clearly you still are not actually reading my posts, the message with Terry was with me, I did not hack your account and screenshot it, also, if you read the messages... I ask if I can share it, and terry says with context and then provides it. Once again, I suggest you read my posts before complaining that you are afraid of me.

For what it's worth.  (not much)
I think MVetter should remove a very childish post that was beneath him.
Post an "I'm sorry" and both he and Brian should agree not to engage directly or insinuate past issues of a personal  nature on here.
Both are very valued minds on here and I would hate to lose either one of them (Cowboy as well) over keyboard insults.

Brian I hope you could forgive him and I ask Shadow to reinstate MVetter if he agrees to drop this matter and future comments of this nature.  All parties are better than this.

New things are coming out all the time now and I'm excited for the future lets enjoy bigger and better things past a bumpy start.

MVetter really wanted to do this, but was banned before he could take it down. He can not even post an appology.

One thing I would add, though, is that I promise, if unbanned, to avoid bitchy weiner and/or leave him be publicly.

Thats a direct quote from MVetter in an email to me this morning.

Brian I am sorry that you are the type of person who finds it in himself to

not feel safe in the Facebook group

I have done my best to support you and your personal problems as well as your therapy and have also done my best not to step on your toes as I understand you are working on your issues, someday I am sure you will beat them.

You have told me several times you do not want to be a part of the ev motorcycle crowd and do not care what anyone thinks of your behavior. You have also stated that you think people deserve your wrath. as you did above using the term MVetter was banned for "Bitchy". I will not comment on how bitchy or not bitchy you are, however it is unfair that he be banned when you yourself use the term.

I believe you are attempting to strong arm me into silence using terms like "don't feel safe" "harrassment" etc. People are not required to be nice to you just because you think they should be. You are an aweful person to be around, and an insufferable customer for both myself and Zero. Honestly I think we would both be better off without you, but I respect that you did try to help the community before developing your current issues.

I'd really rather leave the community than litigate any of this in public or formally.

Perhaps this is what would be best for your sanity and the community then. As your threats of burning things down and being feeling unsafe from online conversations are not rational. While it will be sad to see you go, perhaps once your issues are resolved you can return as a useful member of the community again.

For now though, please, I implore you, stop complaining to people that you dont feel safe or welcome, and instead work on finding out why people are reacting to you as they are. It's not the world that is out to get you and definately not the members of this community. Be nice to them, they used to look up to you.

I wish you the best and hope for your healthy return.

Best,

Brandon Nozaki Miller / Electric Cowboy

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I will keep labeling your behavior in public as long as you keep replying with details that reveal that behavior.

Your replies are escalations and you keep revealing details that I intentionally withhold. You’re implying “burning down” which was never my intention and is part of you trying to protect your ego.

You already admitted to personally attacking people in worse ways than cited above. I’ve observed you doing this for years. And I know why you do it, and why I can’t trust you.

I don’t feel safe around you for reasons I’ve found sound through corroboration with others. That’s why I’m not your friend, and everyone needs to understand that any introduction you’ve made for me to others is tainted by your own reputation and the effects of your social strategy.

[Electric Cowboy]

I see no further reason to hide who you are or what you say about others behind their back. You pretend to be meek and mild yet severe times have posted about " burning down this forum" and the community.

I feel sorry for you because you choices are your own. Someday I hope you realise this、until then、you are making your own castle of complaints. I know ypu dont enjoy it there. You have said as much、 but it seems that is where you will remain.

This vendor you said was rude in this thread was probably rude for a reason. You might consider that from a data driven perspective. The constant in all the vendors eventually giving up as I have is how you treat them.

I do admit I asked you to stop being a bitch on Facebook 、 then appologised to you yes. I hit a breaking point. I regret that I allowed you to get under my skin. I now realise that your not worth being that upset about. And you are not worth losing my cool. That's why I appologised、and that's why I dont think MVetter should be banned. You do this to everyone.

I'm off to build an electric aeroplane! Enjoy the rest of you day!

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

That lacks any dignity I can identify.

I’m happy for your success, because it contributes to the EV effort which I’m in favor of to save the climate.

I’m not out to do damage. But if you’re metaphorically setting fires and I point it out, I can see you wanting to frame that as me trying to damage... something. Goodbye and good luck.