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[DonTom]

It looks like Zero is only about 2 years behind us in technology. And so they will have reasonable charging for most bikes in a couple years.

But will that include better charging for 2017 Zero's that already have the powertank and wish to keep it?

(FWIW, I often find my best info. in what some will consider a hijacked thread).

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

For those of you who are considering the same kind of solution, here is the improvement that I would make if I had to reconsider the problem.
I would fix the charger inside a dedicated top box, with longer connection cables, in such a way that I would leave the charger in the top box while charging (in my present solution I put the charger on the ground).
Givi Monokey boxes for example can carry 10 kgs and would be fine.

And I would swap between the top box containing the charger when I need fast charging, and an empty top box when I do not need fast charging.
I you want to use only one top box, you can also make a system to fix and release easily the charger in the top box.

I would absolutely not place any chargers in the top box (at least beyond 10lbs overall load). The top rack will eventually break, because it's just a giant waving lever against the seat bolts and the tiny M6 bolts holding the rack on under the seat.

I am just now extracting my second set of top rack bolts from the aluminum tail frame horns, and this time I didn't even have a charger in the top box. I cannot overstress how unsuitable the top rack is for heavy loads.

If you must, get a Happy Trails SU side rack, and some small side cases to attach to it, and place your chargers in those. The Happy Trails SU side rack is strong enough that you can lift the bike by the rack reasonably.

I will say that it's possible by bracing the top rack against the Happy Trails side rack, that it should wave less and not exercise the leverage it has against the frame. I had a very basic strut in place to account for depression, but nothing to retain it against lift. So it's possible to fix but requires fabrication or other hacking.

[gt13013]

I would absolutely not place any chargers in the top box (at least beyond 10lbs overall load). The top rack will eventually break, because it's just a giant waving lever against the seat bolts and the tiny M6 bolts holding the rack on under the seat.

OK, I was assuming that the back case is able to carry the charger.
My 3.3kW charger weights 5 kgs.
My rack is quite strong (and mine is not using M6 bolts). I have already hung my bike to the ceiling using the rack:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7311.msg62317#msg62317
And I use it almost everyday since 2 years to carry various things.
I do not know if I am lucky or if you are unlucky, but it seems abnormal if your rack cannot support a load of some kilograms.
If there is a problem with some Zero's racks, perhaps we could open another thread to discuss of that.

The weaker part in my bike is the back case.
I am using a Givi Monolock back case given for 3 kgs max load and I have carried my 5 kgs charger inside without any problem.
That is why I suggest a Givi Monokey back case given for 10 kgs max load, and I assume that a back case given for 10 kgs can carry a 5 kgs charger safely.

[NoMoreIdeas]

I've been doing lots of research on fast charging lately (onboard though). I think I've come up with an ambitious plan to fit an Elcon 3.3kw charger on my FX under the tail just behind the rear shock. I'll have to replace the entire under section of the tail with something fabricated to support the tail as well as encase the Elcon. My initial measuring shows it might work, but it will be tight.

Elcon has a 3.3kw air or water cooled chargers, they look identical to the 3.3kw units diginow is using. I'm guessing their huge value add is a custom canbus controller to communicate with the Zero BMS and charger to provide safe but effective charging, and also pre-crimped connectors to just bolt right in.

You can reportedly order 1.8kw, 3.3kw or 6.6kw units from evcomponents. Here is their 3.3kw unit: http://evcomponents.com/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html

Here is a thread by Shadow detailing his experience ordering and using a 1.8kw pre-programmed Elcon: https://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.0
The advantage of the pre-programming is that it just works out of the box, and has amperage ramp up, and taper down curves built in, as well as a number of safety features. You do not have dynamic control over the charger this way, its a set it and forget it model. Sounds pretty good for an offboard charger. You can also order the charger in a non pre-programmed, canbus controlled option.

For the canbus / charger controller, I found a product made by ThunderstruckEV - https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/evcc-charge-controller.html. This controller has multiple selectable modes that will control how much power the charger consumes, and it will also negotiate the j1772 signal for you as well and works with these elcons. From what I am reading, it doesn't work with the Zero BMS and just controls the charger.

There has also been someone who has done a DIY controller using an aurduino with a canbus sheild:
 Source Code - https://github.com/DanyEarth/TC-Charger-CAN-controller
 Video -

If you order these chargers, it looks like you'll need a number of different connections and a crimper for the Anderson / high amperage / voltage connections.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I would absolutely not place any chargers in the top box (at least beyond 10lbs overall load). The top rack will eventually break, because it's just a giant waving lever against the seat bolts and the tiny M6 bolts holding the rack on under the seat.

OK, I was assuming that the back case is able to carry the charger.
My 3.3kW charger weights 5 kgs.
My rack is quite strong (and mine is not using M6 bolts). I have already hung my bike to the ceiling using the rack:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7311.msg62317#msg62317
And I use it almost everyday since 2 years to carry various things.
I do not know if I am lucky or if you are unlucky, but it seems abnormal if your rack cannot support a load of some kilograms.
If there is a problem with some Zero's racks, perhaps we could open another thread to discuss of that.

The weaker part in my bike is the back case.
I am using a Givi Monolock back case given for 3 kgs max load and I have carried my 5 kgs charger inside without any problem.
That is why I suggest a Givi Monokey back case given for 10 kgs max load, and I assume that a back case given for 10 kgs can carry a 5 kgs charger safely.

I'm not talking about *static load*. I'm talking about *dynamic load*. Your FX rack is no better than what I'm talking about, and is in fact worse. Your suspension is commendable but in no way speaks to the issue I'm talking about.

The first time my tail rack bolts broke, the tail case was waving around behind me because I hit a rough bump at highway speeds (yes, on a very badly paved highway which is a known issue where I live). I have ridden with enough Zero riders to see that many riders have tail cases that wave around at speed when going over rough pavement.

The second time recently that my tail case broke the front bolts was a severe but stationary drop in 40mph gust winds on my steep roadside area in front of my house. I lost footing at a bad angle and the tail case hit the ground in a way that helped shear the heads off the bolts.

I have a background studying mechanical engineering, despite not professionally applying it except as a nuclear technician for several years.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Honestly, the best place to mount chargers is forward of your legs, on each side of the amusingly narrow frames that Zero produces, supported by a bracket that straddles the frame. There is nowhere around the tail that doesn't impact handling or suspension travel in a problematic or dangerous way.

[togo]

> I would absolutely not place any chargers in the top box (at least beyond 10lbs overall load)...

I'm running two or three 3.3kw units on the side of my happy-trail.com rack, with bent metal to provide aero benefit when moving forward and chimney effect when charging.

No problems so far.

Yes, the zero top-rack is not nearly as sturdy.

[sharagan]

Carrying my external charger in the top case inside a foam shell molded to its shape was not a good idea, since it fluttered a little in the jolts of the road.
I now carry it in a tank bag (XLMOTO model, 20+8 liters), and it is much better.
More (and bigger) pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/7F7wahd3ufj1oksZ6

Hello gt13013,

how did the top case hold up so far carrying the Otten charger considering the weight of the charger?
BTW. thanks for your posts, it is an inspiration

[Kappi]

Hi Sharagan,

I carry the same setup with a 3.3 kw charger in the standard Zero top case. Thus, I can leave the whole thing at home when I don't want to ride far.

However, I opted for a non-foam solution for heat conductivity reasons.
The charger is mounted on long bolts that come through holes drilled in the bottom of the top case. I also placed a spacer below the charger so that there is a gap below it for air circulation. On the mounting bolts I placed alulminum tubes as spacers, cut to length and placed large washers below the tubes. The bolts are fittet with large diameter washers as well so that the heads have enough surface are to not compromise or bend the bottom of the top case. Combined with the spacers placed below the charger to allow air flow and give a safety height for potential water ingress (not happended so far), the whole thing is rock solid. The tubular spacers on the bolts ensure that the pressure created by bolting the charger down is held by the bolts themselves and does not "pull up" the bottom of the case. (This descripbtion probaply sounds more complicatet than the build actually is).

Also in the box are the necessary cables (type 2 -->cee red, cee red 3-phase splitter to 3x type 1 shuko, as well as the standard zero cable. I haven't found a single charging station that did not accept that combination. In sum with the internal charger, this provides roughly 4,6 kw of charging.
So far, no issues whatsoever.

[DonTom]

how did the top case hold up so far carrying the Otten charger considering the weight of the charger?
BTW. thanks for your posts, it is an inspiration

In my SR, I carry a 3.3 KW charger in each Zero  side bag. Each  side bag has a higher carrying capacity that the Zero Travel Trunk.  I can charge up to around 8 KW, which exceeds the capacity of most J1772 stations. See the thread here for more info.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[sharagan]

Thanks guys for the ideas and experiences.
Now I realize that I made a mistake when formulating my question - as I am indecisive about the placement of the charger, the top case seems to be the logical and convenient placement. But I actually wanted to ask gt13013 about the tank bag as that has also some advantages (weight more centralized, cheaper to get) but I have some concerns with the forward strap as it seems to be tied down on the frame, where a lot of wires on both sides are present (frame behind the steering stem, in fromt of the charger). Hopefully the description is ok to understand.

[Langelot]

Hello,
As you can see on the photo (two days ago in french Alps) I use the same bag than GT13013 (for the same reason) and no problem with the forward strap and the cables. I'll do a better photo of this part if you are interested.

[sharagan]

Hello Langelot,

thanks for the photo, you have the same bike as me ...could you please take a photo of the location, where the front straps are tied down.
I am considering to buy the Otten charger and also the tank bag. Would be great if I could use the public chargers this way.
How do you connect to the type 2 charger, do you use a type 2 to schuco converter?
Do you have the can bus or the other type of charger?

[Richard230]

The French Alps are looking kind of chilly this time of the year. I bet your battery pack was crying for mercy while riding up there.   

[Langelot]

The Otten charger I have bought has a type 1 plug, a shuco. I have added a cable because the Otten cable was too short for me, and changed the shucos for  french type 1 plugs. I could use a shuco/type 2 converter, but I don't really need it, so I use only the type 1 at home and with the public chargers. GT13013 (who friendly advised me for this charger) use this converter. I charge at 3.3 kW, and I can add the internal charger too to obtain nearly 4 kW. It charges then around 1% per minut.
No canbus, it is the simple charger.

I did two walks in the Alps this week, 110 km and 113 km, starting at an altitude of 400m and arriving at 1750m (Chamrousse) and 1370 (Alpe du Grand Serre). On arrival I had around 9% battery left. I'm so satisfied with my FXS, great motorcycle !