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[2014ZeroSR]

Lead-in thoughts - Support, Support, and Support. Zero needs to get very serious about support whatever the issue e.g. repair, parts, app problems, etc. Concerning the app - How long have app problems existed? Why has Zero limited the amount of data on the latest app? If I used the latest app version, I don't have a clue what the my battery status is. Forget, forget, forget about model improvements. Zero needs to fix what’s wrong, hopefully quickly. JamieC on his thread - ‘My first real issue’, also expressed these very thoughts.

Both Peter and Patrick have both given away their bikes. Why? I can only surmise from their postings, parts failures and lack of support just became too much for them. There are numerous others that have documented their displeasure with support, i.e. dealers and Zero. To Zero’s credit, there are documented posts on this forum where Zero provided support far and above what was expected.

I have a lot invested in this bike. Yes, I know we owners are really Zero’s true R&D department. Being early adopters... - well, you know the rest. I have hopes, still have hopes, of doing things like Terry - get credit for an Iron Butt, riding cross country, being competitive in the Vetter Challenge, etc. Also like Ben Rich - all 48 states.

Just recently, with the Ver 54 update, additional problems surfaced from Ver 52. I began thinking about Peter and Patrick. Should I continue? So I e-mailed Zero - I’m currently in contact with Andrew and Aaron at Zero. It’s refreshing they have taken an interest in my current situation -but - I’m not sure what to do at this moment.

Sorry for getting a bit off-topic.

~~~~~~

14 SR w/PT (13.1 kwh)

My bike recently received the latest firmware update (Ver 54) on 2018.06.01.

Background:
Before the very first firmware update, the bike seemed fine.
I decided to update - it was expected to improve the battery longevity/performance. After updating (likely v52), the app data was very erroneous as well as the dash battery percentage indication. Updating to v54 has caused additional issues.

Ver 54 issues I'm experiencing (Thought - I wonder if there’s more.)

New issues, post 54
[1] Odometer is frozen.
[2] Eco top speed is now ‘65', was ‘70'. Why was it changed? Why???
[3] Dash battery percentage is beyond erroneous, App data is worse than when 52 was accomplished.
[4] Loss of range, now 70-80 miles, was 100 miles. (I think the battery is an issue, not the latest firmware issue. Why?? The old app data which seems ok shows the battery capacity fluctuating somewhere between 11.6 kwh and 12.6 kwh. I haven’t seen 13.1 kwh in sometime.)

Side note: Those who rely solely on their dash battery percentage - Don’t. Read-on - While riding Sunday, at about 65 mph, I experienced the dreaded non-responsive throttle experience. I knew immediately the battery was almost dead. The battery couldn’t be dead because it showed 51% (fifty-one percent). I’m thinking, Ver 54 was heralded by Zero as the final fix. Yep, I have an e-mail from Zero saying so. I immediately slowed way down, and luckily found a charging station about 1.5 miles away. Just before connecting, voltage = 93, dash battery percentage = 50%.

Improvement with Ver 54
The only improvement is - I can finally download the logs. Not once since owning the bike in three (3) have I ever been successful until Update 54. I haven’t looked at the three logs yet, but have attached them.

Final thoughts:
(1) Don't ever update.
(2) If I take Andrew up on his offer to have the bike reverted to per-firmware updates, I’ve decided to never update again.

[SebfromBE]

Hi,

Just a small contribution about the versioning: I have a 2017 S and it does follow the same versioning as for the 2018. I guess this is linked to the move to a more advanced MBB with capability for within app update.

For the record, I am also on latest Rev (31 & 24) and nothing special to declare... Works fine.

Aside: when do we organize a petition to go to zero with a request for firmware changelog :-)

[Richard230]

The 2014 S with PT that I gave my daughter is still running firmware version 32 (if I recall correctly), which was developed early in 2014.  The bike continues to run just fine, with no obvious problems and the app still shows much more battery information then my app with its latest update does.  Frankly, I just don't understand what Zero is trying to achieve with these app and firmware revisions.  They really should let the customer know what each update does, so that we will know what to expect.  What would be the reason not to do this?  And why are they limiting the battery condition information, such as the pack's kWh capacity, supplied by their recent app revisions?

[BamBam]

I'm hoping someone can provide some insight on what firmware versions I'm currently running.  When I go into the Zero app, the firmware update portal says my MBB is version 16 and I need to update to latest version 24.  It does not say anything about the BMS version.

I pulled my MBB and BMS logs and the MBB log says the firmwars revision is 1536 and the board revision is 125.  Unless I'm missing something, the BMS log does not indicate any version number.

PS - the bike is a 2017 DSR

Thanks

[ElectricZen]

Thanks to everyone for their input!  I recognize familiar symptoms described by others.  With my ODO fix I also had an unexpected side affect.  In less than a 24hr period my ODO jumped up 2000km(~1600miles) and now reads incorrectly.  Obviously, there is NO way I covered that kind of distance without knowing about it[emoji16].   I still follow Voltage closely to keep eye on the "real" state of charge. I have sometimes felt the SOC was a bit low..1-3% then would notice at a light that the % would grow appropriately and vice versa.  So obviously the algorithm is getting better.  But Pre August 2017 firmware was considerably more reliable considering some stretches up here in Canada have me rolling into the ONLY ev station in the entire town at 00% [emoji23]. Fustrating would certainly be a good description how I feel.  I was also told Zero CANNOT rollback firmware...  Which just seems silly[emoji19]

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

[ElectricZen]

One day apart.  Before second dealer visit to get the ODO running again.  Dealer changed the ODO to 27600 (est of what I used over the weekend). They ran 2 km there in the shop to verify it was counting.  Rode 80km from there as you can see, but 29682 is wrong.  Very curious to see if this reoccurs for anyone else.  Seems really random lol.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk

[Richard230]

I thought government regulations made it illegal to have a vehicle odometer that could be altered.    If the odometer can be rolled back and forth just by a firmware update, that is something that DOT and your state DMV should know about. 

[Burton]

I thought government regulations made it illegal to have a vehicle odometer that could be altered.    If the odometer can be rolled back and forth just by a firmware update, that is something that DOT and your state DMV should know about. 

The odometer reading is easily changed via the MBB programming / variables and any dealer can do it.

I remember someone having to do it once when a update wiped the data after installing a new motor for example.

[Shadow]

ODO can be incremented yes. Are you saying it can be rolled back as well... I'd read the value is stored in multiple systems and the MBB takes whichever value is higher?

[kashography]

Hey guys. A quick update from me. After the firmware update V53 my ODO
was stuck too, and the range was not what I was used to. So after a while
I checked my logs and found out, that: a)
the ODO-Reading
in the logfiles
was lower than the number on the dash b)
Speed on dashboard was 7-10% to low! and
for that, the km driven also not accurate ("
range"
difference) c) on the top of the logfile
, the Model says
"
NON"
, instead of "
SR"
what was there before. d) Also I had a noticeably stronger regen
in custom mode, what I love (
but will lose again I guess:(
) Zero confirmed to my dealer, that the missing model is the problem. It seems to take a default value for things like sprocket size: Zeros answer: "
The ODO
reading is linked to the model due the sprocket size."
With the tool the zero dealers got in the shops, the dealer and I should be able to set the model of the bike. This is what I will try next Saturday. I will post my results afterwards. I hope it works, because the zero-technicians don't work at Saturday and me dealers knowledge is limited

[ElectricZen]

Funny, seems I forgot to mention my MBB firmware is rev 53 BMS rev 41.

Clearly we are seeing similar behaviors.  Well, that is reassuring.  I have found via observing via Zero Voltage App for Android, that total calculated ah of the battery likes to drift about.  Which will definitely cause bad range estimates.  Remember everytime the firmware is updated the logs are uploaded and wiped from memory.  So the "learning" starts over. 

I have noticed small improvements in estimates the more I ride.  But SOC will still climb and fall 2-3% randomly at a stop to better reflect where the battery voltage is.  Voltage is still king, unfortunately Zero hasn't provided a reliable way to watch it.

That said, with my mixed highway and city riding, I am beginning to see the range driven versus SoC to appear more accurate.( Which indicates to me, no sign of battery degredation, yay!)  Maybe at this rate we will see Pre-2017 reliability by 2020 🤣

PS.  The rumor is ONLY diginow can roll back firmware...haha.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk

[Richard230]

Funny, seems I forgot to mention my MBB firmware is rev 53 BMS rev 41.

Clearly we are seeing similar behaviors.  Well, that is reassuring.  I have found via observing via Zero Voltage App for Android, that total calculated ah of the battery likes to drift about.  Which will definitely cause bad range estimates.  Remember everytime the firmware is updated the logs are uploaded and wiped from memory.  So the "learning" starts over. 

I have noticed small improvements in estimates the more I ride.  But SOC will still climb and fall 2-3% randomly at a stop to better reflect where the battery voltage is.  Voltage is still king, unfortunately Zero hasn't provided a reliable way to watch it.

That said, with my mixed highway and city riding, I am beginning to see the range driven versus SoC to appear more accurate.( Which indicates to me, no sign of battery degredation, yay!)  Maybe at this rate we will see Pre-2017 reliability by 2020 🤣

PS.  The rumor is ONLY diginow can roll back firmware...haha.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk

The SoC estimate on my display used to do the same thing on my 2014 S.  Every time I would stop and then restart, it would drop a point or two. However, that is not happening on my 2018 S - so far.  Whatever the SoC reads when I turn the bike off remains the same when I turn it back on. 

The other thing that my 2018 does not do that my 2014 did do is to have the regen go off and on for the first mile of riding on a full charge. I am pretty sure that is because the maximum voltage of my 2018's battery pack when fully charged is now 115 volts (it used to be 116 volts when new and with fewer firmware revisions  ), whereas the maximum voltage of my 2014 (when new) was 117 volts. 

[Obri]

Ok, i've built a console cable for my Zero FXS, i can confirm that the model is set to NONE:

Code: [Select]

ZERO MBB> set

*************************************************************
*                   System Settings Menu                    *
*************************************************************

  model           - Model Name                                 NONE
  model_year      - Model Year                                 2016
  vin             - VIN Number                    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
  serial          - Serial Number             2016_mbb_XXXXX_XXXXX
  runtime         - Total Run Time                   00000:XX:XX:XX
  test_mode       - Test Mode                   : Off

Now, i guess that it is possible to change the model with the correct password...

[giacomo]

I have a SR '15, had the new firmware updated in the middle of May (MBB rev 53), now I have the model set to NoN on the logs as well as directly from the MBB.
After the "upgrade" I get the following:

1- Odometer doesn't update
2- The App doesn't recognize my model SR, it says "unknown model"
3- Top speed is now 95
4- The speed is off by ~5mph
5- Range estimation is way down compare to previous firmware
6- Regen is much stronger than before

I will check with the dealer on Saturday, but he told me that the model is set automatically during the update....

Hopefully there is a new firmware fixing it ....

Giacomo

[kashography]

I will check with the dealer on Saturday, but he told me that the model is set automatically during the update....

should be set automatically.. 

u have all my "problems" too, i bet it's the missing model. But I'm sad that i will lose the strong regen:(