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[originalspacerob]

Hello Everyone,

I don't have Facebook and only go on here once in awhile.  I stopped by the Zero Motorcycles public forum this morning and saw and update from Brandon. I can't log in but at least I can read a bit before facebook kicks me back to the top of the screen.   Great news and so sad to hear about his accident.  I heard about it the other day while catching up on the Motorcycles and Misfits podcast, then saw it on this forum post and now on the Facebook group.  I am sorry to hear about Brandon's accident but really happy that he is doing so well so quickly.  Good to hear in this video that he is in good spirits and looking to get back into his normal activities.  Heal up fast and good to hear from you. I wish there was something I could do from across the country but its good to hear that he has really good friends around to help out.  Best wishes.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/

[dennis-NL]

Oops, I have ordered 6,6kW/h bellypan for my 2013DS (with 12,5kW battery).
But will it blow the internal fuse on a 2013 model?
What is max?

Or is the main connector (of the standard 1,3kW/h charger) higher rated than the connector at the rear wheel?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Oops, I have ordered 6,6kW/h bellypan for my 2013DS (with 12,5kW battery).
But will it blow the internal fuse on a 2013 model?
What is max?

Or is the main connector (of the standard 1,3kW/h charger) higher rated than the connector at the rear wheel?

For a stock 2013 bike, 6.6kW will blow the fuse on the accessory charging circuit. The 2013 charging fuse and circuit are rated for 30A DC, separately from the onboard charger.

Since your battery was upgraded per the battery recall for 2013, it will be 100A (but effectively 95A), so you can plug your 6.6kW into that circuit without a problem.

I do not know whether the onboard charger in such cases counts towards that fuse’s current, but I would expect it to, because that’s true for 2014+ models.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

By the way, you can check the fuse yourself while the bike is turned off and unplugged.

The rating should be printed on the side of the fuse.

To be clear, you’d:
- Key off the bike
- Unplug any charging to the bike.
- Wait at least several minutes.
- Take off the seat.
- Look around the left side of the doghouse area for the high voltage fuses.
- Unscrew the caps holding the fuses - one will be for the charging circuit, and there’ll be another for the DC converter / etc.

Zero’s owners manual talks about this better than I can explain.

[dennis-NL]

Thx Brian!
I will check it to be sure.

But the 2.5 version will use the connection for onboard charger (replace), so this is different?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

2.5 uses the onboard charger’s communication connector, which does not transmit power.

I believe the product sent plugs power into the accessory charging port. That is the default; the other connection is an add on.

[BenderEmf]

Question about the belly pan - I understand that if you want the 3 charger setup, you must get the new larger belly pan. But if you're going with 1 or 2, can you reuse the stock belly pan?

I found this image of a Zero with a Diginow installed, wondering if they all look this way regardless of number of chargers: https://emtkopan.smugmug.com/DigiNow-v25-Supercharger-install/i-f2JZBzP/A

[Rugby4life]

3 will fit in the stock (steel) pan.

[DPsSRnSD]

Question about the belly pan - I understand that if you want the 3 charger setup, you must get the new larger belly pan. But if you're going with 1 or 2, can you reuse the stock belly pan?

I found this image of a Zero with a Diginow installed, wondering if they all look this way regardless of number of chargers: https://emtkopan.smugmug.com/DigiNow-v25-Supercharger-install/i-f2JZBzP/A

The larger belly pan accommodates the height of the DigiNow chargers, and doesn't need what appear in the photo to be standoffs between the frame and the stock pan.

[dennis-NL]

The replacement from Diginow

quote author=originalspacerob link=topic=8049.msg68400#msg68400 date=1531277026]
If you look at Doctorbass’s youtube videos it may help. I believe these were made while helping on the design.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/quote]

[BenderEmf]

Thanks, so my understanding is that although the chargers will "seat" in the stock pan, they are too tall for the pan to be reattached properly, hence the need for the new pan regardless of the number of chargers. If that is not correct, please let me know.

Second question... my understanding is that if you were to get the 3 charger option, you need a 2nd J1772 inlet because EVSE's are "trippy" once you start drawing too much current from a single source. I know that part of the J1772 standard is a pilot signal that tells the connected vehicle how much current is safe to draw, so does the DigiNow charge setup ignore this pilot signal, in favor of relying on a value in the configuration string that the user supplies when switching between 120v and 240v sources?

[togo]

> Thanks, so my understanding is that although the chargers will "seat" in the stock pan, they are too tall for the pan to be reattached properly, hence the need for the new pan regardless of the number of chargers...

Essentially correct.  Stock pan can be made to work with spacers, that was an early prototype, not nearly as solid a design as doctorbass'/diginow

> Second question... my understanding is that if you were to get the 3 charger option, you need a 2nd J1772 inlet because
> EVSE's are "trippy" once you start drawing too much current from a single source.

Well, some EVSE can supply 3kw, some can supply 6.6kw, some (rare ones) can do more (suncountryhighway.com).  You can also use a Tesla Destination inlet instead of J1772, and some of those can do 18kw (tesla.com/findus and filter so the superchargers go away)

> I know that part of the J1772 standard is a pilot signal that tells the connected vehicle how much current is safe to draw, so does the DigiNow charge setup ignore this pilot signal, in favor of relying on a value in the configuration string that the user supplies

Yes

> when switching between 120v and 240v sources?

No.  They automatically switch to 1.3kw which typical north american household outlets tolerate at 120vac, and you can tell them how much to draw with the string (or an app, soon, i hope) for 240v. 

240v is the variable one.  Most north american "240V" sources have 30A or 50A breakers, and those ratings are not for continuous load, but should be derated to 80% for continuous load, so that's 4.8kw (80% of 30A@200VAC) to 9.6kw (80% of 50A@240VAC).  There do exist some 80A J1772 stations, presumably on a 100A circuit (I've got some of them identified on the metamap that I found through suncountryhighway) and of course those would be 16kw (200v) - 19.2kw (240v) which corresponds nicely to the max for Tesla Destination stations, which can be as high as 18kw (80A*220V=17600watt).

HTH

[BenderEmf]

That is supremely helpful, thanks togo!

I'm a little surprised to hear that my guess about ignoring the pilot signal was correct. That seems like it could be dangerous, if I roll up to a station, I have to correctly guess how many amps I can get out of it. If I overestimate, best case is the breaker trips. Worst case is...

Perhaps I'm just being alarmist. But if I were looking at buying a diginow (in the market for a zero now, we'll see if that ever comes to pass), I'd want to be confident that it was standards-compliant and would "just work."

[Doug S]

Someone published a graph sometime, IIRC it was the good Doc, but I can't find it now. But the upshot of the graph was that the Diginow will only draw 1.3kW from <150VAC or so; above that it will draw more current as the voltage increases (the opposite behavior you'd expect from a switching power supply), apparently attempting to avoid overloading the source if the voltage sags. It's hard to imagine how that would help unless the source is somehow smart enough to reduce the available voltage as current draw goes up, which isn't how most power lines work. Typically they'll maintain full voltage until the breaker blows. But it looks like Diginow at least made an effort to accommodate and correctly handle underpowered lines.

My experience is limited to a single time on one of those charging stations that shares a single 50A line between two chargers. It didn't work. A Leaf was charging when I pulled in, and when I hooked up, the breaker blew and we both lost power. Yay.

Fortunately, it seems like most new installations aren't siamesed like that. I think it was a bad idea that everyone got over pretty quickly. Either run adequate power for two stations or just put in a single.

[togo]

> That is supremely helpful, thanks togo!

My pleasure

> I'm a little surprised to hear that my guess about ignoring the pilot signal was correct. That seems like it could be dangerous, if I roll up to a station, I have to correctly guess how many amps I can get out of it. If I overestimate, best case is the breaker trips. Worst case is...

The sewage pump doesn't work anymore and Alice's Restaurant gets stinky and the electric motorcycle gets blamed?  Hearsay... But we couldn't charge there any more after the first couple... And that was not an EV station with a pilot signal anyway

> Perhaps I'm just being alarmist. But if I were looking at buying a diginow (in the market for a zero now, we'll see if that ever comes to pass), I'd want to be confident that it was standards-compliant and would "just work."

That would be nice. Too much variation in implementation of the pilot signal maybe. Blame Blink!  If diginow does the voltage drop detection, that's good. Tesla reportedly does that, and it makes sense. Stations are breakered in amps, not watts, so doing constant watts, i.e. increasing amps when voltage drops, is conterproductive.