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[Richard230]

So Richard your app shows your bike's voltage when riding?
I thought that was what everybody has been talking about the bike needing.

I was talking about when the bike is at rest and when I was looking at the app.  I thought that was what New2elec was talking about. Apparently, I became confused. 

 I have never tried to look at my cell phone while riding, so I didn't even think about that being the question. Now I understand what Electric Cowboy is saying. However, so far my dash display showing battery capacity in percentage terms seems to be accurate based upon the distance that I ride and rated pack capacity.  That is/was true for my 2012, 2014 and 2018 Zeros. I have never noticed any issue with my new firmware being weird with its pack percentage or estimated range guesstimates.

[Electric Cowboy]

Richard, Don't upgrade firmware any time soon and it will stay that way!

If you have good firmware, this is just for geeks like me

[mrwilsn]

The app only shows voltage when kick stand is down and/or kill switch off.  While riding the app switches to riding screen which does not have voltage as an option.

A workaround while riding is to flip kill switch to off so app changes to battery page so voltage can be checked, then flip kill switch back to run. This isn't perfect as sometimes the app misbehaves in one way or another.

Electric Cowboys mod shows voltage on the bikes display by just rolling to neutral throttle while riding. No messing with phone before ride.  Doesn't require flipping switches back and forth. Doesn't matter if kick stand is up or down. Works while riding or charging.

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[NEW2elec]

That's what I thought Mr. Wilson, Brandon's way is better but there was a way to check the voltage as is. Thanks.
Sorry Richard, my posts are always clear in my head but don't make it to the key board, well most of the time.

Keep the fixes coming there cowboy!

[MrDude_1]

I'll probably use a machined housing and pot the boards with a USB for updates and power from the accessory USB plug.

dont do that.
Machine a mold, then pot the board into shape with polyurathane, or other suitable material. I used to use this: https://www.smooth-on.com/spotlight/casting-finishing-smooth-cast-onyx-deep-black-resin/

Much cheaper, vibration and weather proof. etc.
It could just plug into the bike as a small unit, like the cheap $7 ODBII readers do.

[Electric Cowboy]

@MrDude_1

Molds and casting is something we are just getting into. Any info you can point me to would be appreciated. Hapco stuff looks like the easiest way to get into it at the volumes we are doing and they hold your hand since their parts are so expencive. The tools are just so expencive, but I suppose that is still cheaper than paying people by the hour to mix and pour and make ratio mistakes with the Urathane or PolyUrea. Potting with similar resins in machined boxes has proven to be the most reliable solution thus far for a fast, clean, and durable product with minimal loss due to imperfection or human error.

[MrDude_1]

@MrDude_1

Molds and casting is something we are just getting into. Any info you can point me to would be appreciated. Hapco stuff looks like the easiest way to get into it at the volumes we are doing and they hold your hand since their parts are so expencive. The tools are just so expencive, but I suppose that is still cheaper than paying people by the hour to mix and pour and make ratio mistakes with the Urathane or PolyUrea. Potting with similar resins in machined boxes has proven to be the most reliable solution thus far for a fast, clean, and durable product with minimal loss due to imperfection or human error.

The man I learned most of this from has passed on, so I only have the limited experience of the project I used to sell. I made a plug in replacement for the exhaust servo motor for 08+  honda sportbikes.  At the time, the plug was not available. I added modeling clay to a stock plug, and made a silicone mold around it.
I would push the pins and board into the model cavity, pour in some urathane and 5mins later I could demold a hot part. I eventually made 3 molds so I could just keep doing it non-stop for an evening. Total cost for the mold and casting stuff was under $80 and that made a couple hundred parts with some left over.
Potting in a box is also good, as long as its cost effective. Otherwise you might as well cast them in your own mold.
I know it sounds really low tech compared to something machined... You can always machine the mold, or 3d print the item and mold from it... The end user never really knows the diff as long as you make a quality item.

I use Smooth-On products for most things. They're huge in the small-shop molding world, their products are mature, and they can usually help you with any questions that come up.

Something like this I would prefer it be as small as possible. Plug in and go... so a potted box seems wrong... but thats also my opinion on it and I wouldnt fault you if gen one of it was this way.

[MrDude_1]

prototype


my first ever silicone mold:


white molded prototype in place:


some progression.


*moderator edit* set image widths

[togo]

EC, since you are potting anyway, do you need a case?  Maybe you could get away with the epoxy of the potting being the container, embed a bolt or something.  If the material needs further protection, maybe a dip in epoxy paint, or double-layered heat-shrink.  Don't neglect the stress relief for the wires.

[togo]

This stuff is not really so much for people who rarely ride far or charge fast.

If I recall correctly, Richard and his daughter have factory bikes and factory add-ons.

If you charge to full with factory charger, and make sure to charge before you get to 20 miles estimated range, you are probably fine without looking every at the voltage.  It's the road-trippers and the partial/charge folks who need the voltage displayed.

Richard, Don't upgrade firmware any time soon and it will stay that way!

If you have good firmware, this is just for geeks like me

[Electric Cowboy]

@TOGO, the latest firmware can mess up your average rider as well. Immagine the breaker is shared and trips for some reason and you go out ant the bike shows 75% but is at 97v... big trouble ahead if you dont have an outlet near by. This happened to me the other day on a bike I was working on. It read 48% but was at 96v.

also @ 20 miles range... while riding a bike 2 days ago to the factory, the range stayed at a constant 68 miles for the last 20 miles then started to increase. All the while the voltage was going down. The factory is only 50/60 miles from me.

So this is kind of important for EVERYONE with the new firmware. Not just geeks like us. But for those of us that have the old firmware it is still super important for road tripping when you are getting low or fast charging so you can better guage your range and charge time.

Just food for thought anyway.

@MrDude_1 thanks for the info!

This stuff is not really so much for people who rarely ride far or charge fast.

If I recall correctly, Richard and his daughter have factory bikes and factory add-ons.

If you charge to full with factory charger, and make sure to charge before you get to 20 miles estimated range, you are probably fine without looking every at the voltage.  It's the road-trippers and the partial/charge folks who need the voltage displayed.

Richard, Don't upgrade firmware any time soon and it will stay that way!

If you have good firmware, this is just for geeks like me

[Skidz]

Dude, you have a fuel pump relay in your Zero?!?


 

[Richard230]

I hope this hasn't been asked before on this thread (I looked but couldn't find an answer), but what is the voltage cutoff for the battery system on the Zero when the pack is depleted?

[2014ZeroSR]

Brandon,

Your hack is quite interesting.

Your hack solves a huge problem of incorrect data - It shows the true status of the battery at a glance.
I now rely on the Android app - ‘Zero Voltage’ - but find it’s sometimes inconvenient as I must mount it to the handle bars prior to riding. Me - I just want to ride and not spend time hooking/mounting things. Yep, I’ve had to recover my bike three times and trailer it back to my residence because I relied on false data on the dash.

Your hack highlights that people will find a useful/needed workaround if a manufacturer fails to. The data on the official Zero app and the dash data will likely never be reliable as it once was (or was it).

Firmware updates - I wish Zero would revert my 2014 SR to the original firmware.
Zero official app - I wish Zero would re-release the original Zero app.

Your hack - produce it now.
Send me one soonest.

For planning purposes - What’s the expected cost?
For planning purposes - What’s the recommended mounting location?

[skoleskibe]

Morgan filmed some of what I was working on the other day.

The gist of it is that while riding your dash looks the same, however when you roll off the throttle to neutral or even into regen if you want, you will see the resting voltage instead of wh/mi. Also when you are charging, you will see the amps in the range area. If you wanted to see the range again you would just roll the throttle a little. Basically the best of both worlds and you have real time ACCURATE guage of what is left in your battery.

It is the best fix for the current firmware issue I have come up with. And It's pretty exciting even if there wasn't a firmware issue in the Zero.

Remember, always trust your voltage!

Just wonder, as great as this idea is.
if your Zero decides its out of juice it stops running, wether the voltage is over or under the “0” mark



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