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[Doctorbass]

Can someone confirm is there is any document ( usually these are in txt file)  that explain the past firmware and the bug they correct, the things that they are supposed to improove etc?

It seem it wold be very helpfull to understand the firmware various behavior people experience with it.

Usually firmware files are in combo with a text file that enumerate all corrected bugs etc...

Doc

[Richard230]

If I knew that question I would be a lot more interested in updating my firmware - or not.    Even Windows 10 will give you some idea of what their various revisions are supposed to do for you. But with Zero you don't even get to know the size of the latest revision update so that you have some idea how long it will take to download. Zero certainly doesn't want anyone that hasn't signed a nondisclosure agreement to know anything about their business.   

[MorbidBBQ]

I recently requested the changelog from zero when they said the fix to my problem was to update the firmware.
I got the email version of a blank staring deer in headlights.

[Richard230]

I recently requested the changelog from zero when they said the fix to my problem was to update the firmware.
I got the email version of a blank staring deer in headlights.

Sounds about right.   

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I have avoided dealing with this topic on zeromanual.com because Zero is clearly not prepared for this, and it's very time-consuming for me to clean-room reverse engineer a bunch of firmware images compared to other things I could do for the community.

[kashography]

I would also love to see a changelog of the firmware updates. There are rumors arround, that Zero will cap the Battery at 115.2V instead of 116.2V and with this reduce the usable capacity. I dont know if there is anything true about that, but for this sort of rumors it would be great to just have a public statement for every firmwareupdate, what they changed..

I will check the voltage myself in the next days (with the app and in the logfiles), because i should also have the newest firmware

[Richard230]

I would also love to see a changelog of the firmware updates. There are rumors arround, that Zero will cap the Battery at 115.2V instead of 116.2V and with this reduce the usable capacity. I dont know if there is anything true about that, but for this sort of rumors it would be great to just have a public statement for every firmwareupdate, what they changed..

I will check the voltage myself in the next days (with the app and in the logfiles), because i should also have the newest firmware

The latest firmware updates that I installed in my 2018 Zero S is still keeping the maximum voltage at 116 volts. I might add that my 2014 Zero showed 117 volts when it was new.  (After 4 years on the street it is now showing 113 volts when fully charged.)

[Doctorbass]

I would also love to see a changelog of the firmware updates. There are rumors arround, that Zero will cap the Battery at 115.2V instead of 116.2V and with this reduce the usable capacity. I dont know if there is anything true about that, but for this sort of rumors it would be great to just have a public statement for every firmwareupdate, what they changed..

I will check the voltage myself in the next days (with the app and in the logfiles), because i should also have the newest firmware

The latest firmware updates that I installed in my 2018 Zero S is still keeping the maximum voltage at 116 volts. I might add that my 2014 Zero showed 117 volts when it was new.  (After 4 years on the street it is now showing 113 volts when fully charged.)

I guess it has something to do with cell balancing..  because as cell age these are not supposed to require reduced voltage  range...  did you checked the cell balancing recently? what is th delta V between the highest and the lowest? also is there alot of unbalanced cells?.. this might affect the total battery balance as if only one group is at 4.15V  the charge will stop even tough if some otehr are still at 4.05 or 4.10...

Also do you have the powertank?.. batbe the monolith is at 113 an dthe powertank is  not matched and contactor os ipened  but the powertank is still at 116V but you only see the monolith battery voltage..?

Doc

[Richard230]

I would also love to see a changelog of the firmware updates. There are rumors arround, that Zero will cap the Battery at 115.2V instead of 116.2V and with this reduce the usable capacity. I dont know if there is anything true about that, but for this sort of rumors it would be great to just have a public statement for every firmwareupdate, what they changed..

I will check the voltage myself in the next days (with the app and in the logfiles), because i should also have the newest firmware

The latest firmware updates that I installed in my 2018 Zero S is still keeping the maximum voltage at 116 volts. I might add that my 2014 Zero showed 117 volts when it was new.  (After 4 years on the street it is now showing 113 volts when fully charged.)

I guess it has something to do with cell balancing..  because as cell age these are not supposed to require reduced voltage  range...  did you checked the cell balancing recently? what is th delta V between the highest and the lowest? also is there alot of unbalanced cells?.. this might affect the total battery balance as if only one group is at 4.15V  the charge will stop even tough if some otehr are still at 4.05 or 4.10...

Also do you have the powertank?.. batbe the monolith is at 113 an dthe powertank is  not matched and contactor os ipened  but the powertank is still at 116V but you only see the monolith battery voltage..?

Doc

In my case, my 2018 S shows a cell balance of between 2 and 4 mV.  I have no idea if the Power Tank is being measured by the app.  My daughter's 2014 S, with PT, just won't charge past 113 volts unless left on the charger for several days.  After about a week it will top out at 98% and 115 volts, but when under weigh it won't stay there for very long. When I owned the bike the cell balance seemed OK, within 5 mV, but now she just rides the bike and doesn't worry about cell balance and never checks it.

[gt13013]

I guess it has something to do with cell balancing..  because as cell age these are not supposed to require reduced voltage  range...  did you checked the cell balancing recently? what is th delta V between the highest and the lowest? also is there alot of unbalanced cells?.. this might affect the total battery balance as if only one group is at 4.15V  the charge will stop even tough if some otehr are still at 4.05 or 4.10...

How can you check if there is a lot of unbalanced cells?
Is there a way to check the voltage of each cell?

From my (little) experience
the Zero Application only gives only one voltage (I guessed it was the difference between the higher cell and the lower one, but is it true?),
and in the logs I find information in the form
    Batt Dischg Cur Limited 504 A (96%), MinCell: 3677mV, MaxPackTemp: 16C
or
    SOC adjusted for voltage   old:   4430977uAH (soc:83%), new:   4940000uAH (soc:81%), low cell: 3925 mV
but nothing in order to track weak cells

Thanks

[Richard230]

I guess it has something to do with cell balancing..  because as cell age these are not supposed to require reduced voltage  range...  did you checked the cell balancing recently? what is th delta V between the highest and the lowest? also is there alot of unbalanced cells?.. this might affect the total battery balance as if only one group is at 4.15V  the charge will stop even tough if some otehr are still at 4.05 or 4.10...

How can you check if there is a lot of unbalanced cells?
Is there a way to check the voltage of each cell?

From my (little) experience
the Zero Application only gives only one voltage (I guessed it was the difference between the higher cell and the lower one, but is it true?),
and in the logs I find information in the form
    Batt Dischg Cur Limited 504 A (96%), MinCell: 3677mV, MaxPackTemp: 16C
or
    SOC adjusted for voltage   old:   4430977uAH (soc:83%), new:   4940000uAH (soc:81%), low cell: 3925 mV
but nothing in order to track weak cells

Thanks

The Zero battery condition section of the app for both my 2014 and 2018 bikes has a window that shows cell balance, which cycles from pack to pack and displays the balance of each individual pack.  But it does not indicate which is the "base" pack that it is comparing the others with and does not indicate which pack of cells it is monitoring. So while it gives some idea how the individual packs are balanced, it is certainly not very specific - although the BMS logs might show more detail, if you know how to read them. 

[gt13013]

The Zero battery condition section of the app for both my 2014 and 2018 bikes has a window that shows cell balance, which cycles from pack to pack and displays the balance of each individual pack.  But it does not indicate which is the "base" pack that it is comparing the others with and does not indicate which pack of cells it is monitoring. So while it gives some idea how the individual packs are balanced, it is certainly not very specific

I do not find this battery condition section on my Zero App.
Here are the screen copies of my Zero App v1.6.71 (22), which runs on Android:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/w25bLmWGHbgeipu32

By the way, I was surprised today by the screens of my Zero App v1.6.71 (22). They are quite different from those I am used to! Indeed, my phone has made an automatic update on Feb 7th and changed from v1.6.50 to 1.6.71. Here is the changelog that I get on my phone (using the Changelog Droid App):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/MM5IjNeziIvB3H0s2

Here are screen copies of a previous version, v1.5.7 (20), that was on my phone on May 29th, 2017:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6HY685RyRA9HPi3E3
In this version, there was a cell balance expressed in mV, but it has disappeared in the present version.

although the BMS logs might show more detail, if you know how to read them. 

Yes, I have read them using zero-log-parser.html and stored the decoded file in Winword format here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/169sfrzzoaxrluv/AAA0y1-Ot4a5uRdKzNDGlwWda?dl=0
But I find nothing about the cell balancing

[Richard230]

The window that show "3" in this screen: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOMH-jBDKKe-oICKi4k6MnuTdn29rao_WHZwkX8suQTtq9dOOTbyKstdn_6c7Rotw?key=MUw1ejNPUmF5S040bHVkNi1nWGFSaGN2TnVIdkpR
is what I am taking as the cell balancing numbers.  It changes every few seconds to show the balancing of each battery pack that it checks.  But I have no idea what is the baseline that it is measuring against, but it shows "mV" after the number on my screen.

I just checked my Zero Android app (which on my phone is dated July 16, 2016, but I don't know what that date signifies) for my fully-charged bike and it shows cell balancing at 3mV on the screen, which looks like yours, but has more information, including a battery pack capacity of 15.138 kWh, when you scroll up.

Personally, I liked the previous version that you label as v1.5.7(20), which also had the cell balance window as shown in your screen copy for that version.

[wavelet]

It don't understand how it's even legal to issue any firmware upgrade without filing the image itself, verified by checksum &  detailed change log with the DoT.
Since firmware controls so many aspects of vehicle behavior, including many safety issues, any other procedure makes it too easy to issue malicious updates by 3d parties, and very difficult in investigate safety problems that may be related to firmware.
Just as it isn't legal in most cases to change a model's HW by the manufacturer without some kind of re-certification procedure (at least not in my jurisdiction), it should be the same for firmware.

I never ever install any software update on anything without a detailed change log -- as a SW professional for 40 years, I know very well that any change can introduce just as many bugs as it fixes, so if an update doesn't fix something relevant to me, the risk isn't worth it.
At least for a general-purpose operating system or application upgrade, it's not a life and death matter... It certainly is on a vehicle.

[Richard230]

It don't understand how it's even legal to issue any firmware upgrade without filing the image itself, verified by checksum &  detailed change log with the DoT.
Since firmware controls so many aspects of vehicle behavior, including many safety issues, any other procedure makes it too easy to issue malicious updates by 3d parties, and very difficult in investigate safety problems that may be related to firmware.
Just as it isn't legal in most cases to change a model's HW by the manufacturer without some kind of re-certification procedure (at least not in my jurisdiction), it should be the same for firmware.

I never ever install any software update on anything without a detailed change log -- as a SW professional for 40 years, I know very well that any change can introduce just as many bugs as it fixes, so if an update doesn't fix something relevant to me, the risk isn't worth it.
At least for a general-purpose operating system or application upgrade, it's not a life and death matter... It certainly is on a vehicle.

Those are some interesting comments that I hadn't thought about before.  I was just happy that I didn't have to visit my dealer and get in the queue for a service appointment to update my firmware, after fighting my way to and through San Francisco.   

When it comes to the U.S. there are a lot of things that are legal here that are not legal elsewhere.