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[wavelet]

ElectricZen, I don't think there's reason to think Zero are necessarily a bunch of greedy capitalists. It's much more likely to be down to disorganization.
Recall they're  still a small-ish operation, without deep pockets, no matter what marketing image they may try to project. While I have no access to their financials, it's a safe bet they're not making significant profits.

Customer support is a day-to-day operations matter, also tied to supply chain & logistics issues -- not something small tech-oriented companies are good at.

As someone who's worked at several startups and also at a VC which funded many of them, it's a  very difficult transition from focusing on doing the R&D  for leading-edge new products, to focus on reliability and supporting them in the field. It takes completely different personality types, for one.

As I noted upthread, anyone considering buying an electric motorcycle at this point needs to understand this -- they're for early adopters, and not mature products. If a person wants something with predictable reliability support as a Big 4 ICE bike, they really need to wait ~3 years until after one of the Big 4 has started selling EV bikes, and ironed out all the  issues.
Right now, there's no sizeable market. Motorcycles as a whole are a tiny market, compared to cars, and EV cars aren't exactly mainstream -- worldwide, they had a 1.3% marketshare (BEVs and PHEVs together), and that's mostly because of China.

It's not a coincidence none of the established moto vendors has so far even developed an non-scooter/moped EV prototype, aside from KTM.
H-D's Project Livewire doesn't account, and neither does the recent announcement they'll launch an actual bike until we see the prototype (I'm not very hopeful given the 50mi range of Livewire).

[ElectricZen]

ElectricZen, I don't think there's reason to think Zero are necessarily a bunch of greedy capitalists. It's much more likely to be down to disorganization.
Recall they're  still a small-ish operation, without deep pockets, no matter what marketing image they may try to project. While I have no access to their financials, it's a safe bet they're not making significant profits.

Customer support is a day-to-day operations matter, also tied to supply chain & logistics issues -- not something small tech-oriented companies are good at.

As someone who's worked at several startups and also at a VC which funded many of them, it's a  very difficult transition from focusing on doing the R&D  for leading-edge new products, to focus on reliability and supporting them in the field. It takes completely different personality types, for one.

As I noted upthread, anyone considering buying an electric motorcycle at this point needs to understand this -- they're for early adopters, and not mature products. If a person wants something with predictable reliability support as a Big 4 ICE bike, they really need to wait ~3 years until after one of the Big 4 has started selling EV bikes, and ironed out all the  issues.
Right now, there's no sizeable market. Motorcycles as a whole are a tiny market, compared to cars, and EV cars aren't exactly mainstream -- worldwide, they had a 1.3% marketshare (BEVs and PHEVs together), and that's mostly because of China.

It's not a coincidence none of the established moto vendors has so far even developed an non-scooter/moped EV prototype, aside from KTM.
H-D's Project Livewire doesn't account, and neither does the recent announcement they'll launch an actual bike until we see the prototype (I'm not very hopeful given the 50mi range of Livewire).

I personally am done with the apologist position.  I held that position far too long for a company that has done nothing to ensure my unwavering support.  We can make every excuse for them but I would not endorse their product going forward. 

I also think you are incorrect by claiming they are not a mature product.  10+years in the business and 2015+ bikes are proving to be reliable when excluding the charger issues they still suffer from.  Ironically, the diginow(aftermarket) is proving to be the most reliable solution.  Certainly in my experience.

As you stated the motorcycle industry as a whole is in trouble.  This is where branding is so important.  I too have been involved with a few startups, tech and other customer focused businesses.  Brand recognition will help with sales but you only get that from going above and beyond expectations.  But delivering at below expectations... Is suicide.  Sorry just hard truth.  No one loves their Zero more than me, but too many stories like this from people I respect. 

One major competitor and they are going to struggle even more.  Without the loyality of existing customers, they will lose.  I'm not going to be in the market for a new bike for 3-4 years (touch wood).  The market is going to look very different at that time.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using Tapatalk

[nevetsyad]

2015 Zero SR. Many issues. Lots of time in the shop. Zero provided replacement parts when something was proven bad, but they took over a month for each. Any other issues, random shutdowns, slowdowns, etc. they just said update the firmware. Last years firmware caused random state of charge and range. My bike is getting worse over time.

Finally I hired a lawyer. Zeros lawyer gave us offensive offers, said the bike was fine, third party chargers voided the warranty (couldn't prove this and back peddled later on), and finally just stopped replying, like Zero did when they started "processing my refund request". We have a court date for March 29th, Virginia Lemon law is quite clear, they're going to owe me a lot of money.

Wife's 2016 S lost propulsion and the dash went to 0 MPH while on the freeway. She's a new rider and they never gave us a root cause, just, you guessed it, a firmware update recommendation. We're going to sell it, or I'm going to ride it and record everything with a helmet cam, in case it kills me. She's afraid to get back in the saddle. We're 100% solar and EV, so we're going to give up on 2 wheeled EVs until the Harley arrives, hopefully it's decent. May get us both back on the road with that.

Zero doesn't stand behind their products. The dealers get ghosted if Zero can't fix the issue, or if they question the "installed the new firmware" mantra that they push. Buy a Zero at your own risk, you get a bad one, you're stick with it.

The OP is a bit alarming to me as someone who plans to drop 20g on a 2018 in the very near future.
Maybe current production no longer leads to similar sad stories. Or maybe not.

Buyers of late model Zeros:

 Please, PLEASE share your reliability experience. Thanks.

[buutvrij for life]

nevetsyad,  very very sorry to read your story. My 2015 DS is flawless except for on-board charger going tits up one one time. (warranty)
I hope you will get some satisfaction somewhere in your situation...

[nevetsyad]

Yeah, a month or two out the gate my 2015 lost it's charger. I was told replacing it would fix my random shutdowns. Took over a month for it to get in. Two weeks for the dealer to finally get a tech on the phone to help with install issues.

Only solace I can get now is by winning in court and getting my money, and legal fees back. I've never been so frustrated with a company before.

[togo]

So sad to hear your story Patrick.

I was unhappy with Zero with my 2011 S, didn't seem to be responsive,
but my 2014 SR has run well, except for one onboard charger incident
(fixed with firmware they said), very reliable.

[bluefxstc]

Looking to get into electric motorcycles.  Been concentrating on the Alta Redshift EX or the Zero FX.  Kind of liked the FX because of the bigger pack size and lower price, but after reading this I am thinking the Alta is a better product.  I live in Boise with no Zero dealer, but there is an Alta dealer.  Buying a bike without good factory support is a non starter for me, sorry Zero.

[Fivespeed302]

Sorry, but I came on here to start a thread with the exact same title.

I own a 2015 Zero SR.  It’s been in the shop 8 times in three years, all for warranty work. Several visits to the shop took over a month, which means I had to make payments on a bike that wasn’t even in my possession!  This latest issue has lasted over a month...again.

After 3 years and 17,000 miles, the battery is dead.  I had to actually argue with the service shop manager because he insisted that “Zero batteries don’t go bad”.  Yeah right.  Charge it to 100% and try to go further than 30 miles.  I hope you bring your cellphone or some decent walking shoes, bottled water, and a hat.

My R1 has 25,000 miles on it, and it’s never been to the shop for anything other than tires.  Funny how a race bike with lights and a plate can go 25,000 miles with no issues but a “zero maintenance” bike needs constant repair.

I spoke with the head sales manager (it’s a family owned business and I think he’s the boss), he’s supposed to call me today.  He’s trying to find out if Zero will warranty my battery. IF? For the life of me, I can’t figure out why it’s taken a month to find out if Zero will warranty a 3 year old battery with 17,000 miles on it.  There should be no question.

I want off this train wreck.  The concept is great, but not at my expense anymore. I was told that assuming the battery is warrantied, the bike will have depreciated 60% in 3 years.  I’ll be able to do an even swap for a 2018 Honda Shadow Phantom.  At least I know how to work on the Shadow, and I doubt I’ll have to do much to it other than valve adjustments, which appear to be as easy as doing a lawnmower.

Goodbye Zero, great concept, poorly executed.

[wavelet]

Sorry, but I came on here to start a thread with the exact same title.

I own a 2015 Zero SR.  It’s been in the shop 8 times in three years, all for warranty work. Several visits to the shop took over a month, which means I had to make payments on a bike that wasn’t even in my possession!  This latest issue has lasted over a month...again.

After 3 years and 17,000 miles, the battery is dead.  I had to actually argue with the service shop manager because he insisted that “Zero batteries don’t go bad”.  Yeah right.  Charge it to 100% and try to go further than 30 miles.  I hope you bring your cellphone or some decent walking shoes, bottled water, and a hat.

My R1 has 25,000 miles on it, and it’s never been to the shop for anything other than tires.  Funny how a race bike with lights and a plate can go 25,000 miles with no issues but a “zero maintenance” bike needs constant repair.

I spoke with the head sales manager (it’s a family owned business and I think he’s the boss), he’s supposed to call me today.  He’s trying to find out if Zero will warranty my battery. IF? For the life of me, I can’t figure out why it’s taken a month to find out if Zero will warranty a 3 year old battery with 17,000 miles on it.  There should be no question.

I want off this train wreck.  The concept is great, but not at my expense anymore. I was told that assuming the battery is warrantied, the bike will have depreciated 60% in 3 years.  I’ll be able to do an even swap for a 2018 Honda Shadow Phantom.  At least I know how to work on the Shadow, and I doubt I’ll have to do much to it other than valve adjustments, which appear to be as easy as doing a lawnmower.

Goodbye Zero, great concept, poorly executed.

Sorry to hear about your issues. Don't have a Zero yet, partially because range/charging options aren't  there yet for sport-touring (I'm not in the US, and digichargers wouldn't help, and even if they did, cost is out of line)  and partially because I'm concerned the tiny importer into my country, also the single service location, might be too far away from the factory to be able to get parts & Zero's attention in reasonable time.

I assume you're in the US? If so, look into whether your state has a Lemon Law. I would have lost patience after the third downtime incident. In parallel, try contacting Zero directly, their PR & management directly.

[nevetsyad]

Third month plus long incident did it for me. That and them insisting nothing was wrong, especially when I bought a helmet cam to record the issues for them. Three shops took a try at it, first I bought from, dropped them. Made things difficult, as there was no nearby support.

Luckily for me, my state’s lemon laws cover motorcycles! I appealed to Zero management first and they said they would submit me for a refund review with the board, after a month of collecting paperwork and jumping through hoops. All that just to ignore me - I guess I’m too vocal about Zero problems on social media. They tried to run down the clock so I wouldn’t have a lemon law claim. Then their lawyer offered me pennies on the dollar for my bike, when they clearly owe me a full refund.

Great bike when it worked, even though it kept turning off while riding it, slowing to half highway speed on the highways, stranding me with system panics/flashing dash panics and all. That EV torque is amazing, and no more gas station visits every few days is great. Hopefully the HD EV is better supported.

Horrible company with horrible support. Goodbye Zero.

[Fivespeed302]

Sorry to hear about your issues. Don't have a Zero yet, partially because range/charging options aren't  there yet for sport-touring (I'm not in the US, and digichargers wouldn't help, and even if they did, cost is out of line)  and partially because I'm concerned the tiny importer into my country, also the single service location, might be too far away from the factory to be able to get parts & Zero's attention in reasonable time.

I assume you're in the US? If so, look into whether your state has a Lemon Law. I would have lost patience after the third downtime incident. In parallel, try contacting Zero directly, their PR & management directly.

Florida law specifically exempts motorcycles from the lemon laws.  No help there.

I don’t want to contact Zero, what are they going to do, give me a new battery, pat me on the ass, and say, “away you go!”?  I don’t want to own a Zero any longer.  I’m beginning to think they named it “Zero” because that’s what you’ll end up with when the battery dies.  It’s a $6000 bike with a $10,000 battery.  The battery dies out of warranty, and it’s totaled.  Goodbye and good riddance.

[nevetsyad]

Request a refund. Or credit towards a new Zero. Much higher chance of a trade in credit.

[Fivespeed302]

Request a refund. Or credit towards a new Zero. Much higher chance of a trade in credit.

I’ve already been told I’ll get a trade in credit, as long as Zero warranties the battery.  I’ve already picked out the bike I want, we’re just waiting to hear back from Zero.  If they don’t warranty the battery, all Hell is about to break loose.

I don’t want another Zero.  Ever.

I want to be done with this crap permanently.

[nevetsyad]

You’re preaching to the choir. let us know what happens. Have you posted on the Facebook group? Emailed Aaron at Zero?

[Fivespeed302]

You’re preaching to the choir. let us know what happens. Have you posted on the Facebook group? Emailed Aaron at Zero?

No, I’m waiting to hear about the battery.  If they screw me, I’ll be the most vocal asshole on the web, sending emails, FB, and snail mail letters to everyone I can think of.  Otherwise, I’ll chalk it up as a lesson learned the hard way, shut my mouth, and ride off in the distance on my new Honda.