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[togo]

> I was only joking about more skilled riders by the way. Sorry if you thought I was being serious.

"Sorry if you thought" is harsh.

[Fred]

What? How is a genuine apology a bit harsh? If people on this thread are going to take offence where none is intended then I'm just going to shut up and leave you to it. I hope everyone gets what they want for 2019.

[Alan Stewart]

Everybody's got an opinion, including me.

When I was younger, I got in trouble on the motorcycle fairly often. Low-siding when a misty rain had made painted markers on the pavement very slippery or when gravel made the traction disappear, just plain misjudging a curve when riding too fast, etc.

But it's been years, maybe decades, since anything like that happened to me. Maybe I just don't feel the need to ride as fast as I used to, or maybe more experience leads me to not over-drive my line of sight, or whatever. It's not necessarily about being a better rider, it's about higher experience and awareness levels keeping me from getting INTO the kind of jams I used to be unable to get out of. I now know just how slippery those painted markers can be, and to look for gravel on the outside of curves. Everybody has to learn these things at a young age; some of us have already learned those lessons.

For that reason, I don't care for traction control. I don't really want to spend the extra money to amortize the development and/or licensing costs. I don't want to pay for any extra components (I don't think my 2014 SR even has wheel speed sensors), nor do I want to carry the extra weight around. I can see the value in traction control for those who don't have the experience levels of some of us yet, but I also think those lessons about traction are important ones and should be learned by every rider at some point. If we keep catering to the lowest common denominator, we'll all be riding around with outriggers soon.

That's my opinion, FWIW. Yours may vary.

Doug S, one way to reduce per unit development costs and keep motorcycle costs down is to create a larger market for them. Making motorcycles safer for inexperienced riders helps to increase the size of the market.

[heroto]

Amen to that.

[netdomon]

1.  More range
2.  Lower cost
3.  More speed

[Richard230]

1.  More range
2.  Lower cost
3.  More speed

We say that every year, but I haven't seen much progress towards those three goals since 2014.    My 2014 S (which my daughter is now riding) had just about the same range, speed and cost as my 2018 S.

[volt]

Lower prices all around. To be more specific I'd suggest $3,000 - $4,000 lower price on each model. Additional optional improvements I might suggest: more color options, better brakes, traction control, and full color screen. I can 99% guarantee your sales would go up. Supply and demand. The demand is luke warm at the moment because the technology is still relatively new and the prices are too high for the average motorcycle buyer. I would expect to pay a little more than a gas bike but not as much as a brand new car or nice used car.

I've been lurking these forums, YT videos, and the Zero website for years. Every year I check back in to see what changes they've made. The prices are the main thing holding me back.

As MostlyBonkers stated above "I'm now of a mind that they should concentrate on reducing the price. They are selling a very standard mid range motorcycle at a premium price." I completely agree. For the price you're paying for these motorcycles you should never have to wait a month for the company to respond to your issues, as JaimeC has experienced.

The longevity of these bikes is also a concern to me. The warranty doesn't seem to cover everything. I've also read plenty of issues people have had within the first 2 years of owning one. I'd be curious to know factual stats as to how many people have a problem with their bike within the first 2 years (actual problems, not something like needing new tires because they're worn out). I really want to own a Zero but I feel like they need a few more years to work out some kinks and improve everything.

There's no way I'm going to drop $11-$16k on a brand new bike to have something like this happen on day 1...if this had happened to me, I would've returned it the same day for a full refund and never looked at the company again. I'm sure it's a rare occurrence but that's just crazy. Makes you wonder how it passed quality control on the way out of the factory...

That's my video, cool.

Well, as that person who had that failure, here's my suggestion:

-Make a firmware stack that is reliable
-Fix the OTA update

[Christian J]

I want for the bikes to be more reliable.
A warranty that covers everything (except for usual maintenance and accidents, of course) within the first 5 years (or 100.000 miles) would make people a lot more optimistic about its longevity.

I want the shops to be able to quickly fix any problems.
So a better repair/workshop manual, backoffice software and reduced shipping times (in EU) would go a long way.

They advertise the Zeros as being basically maintenance free. Now they have to put the money where their mouth is.
This year I had repair costs of about 2500 EUR already, and I expect another 2000 EUR in the second half of 2018. (axle, motor, MBB & BMS)

That's for a MY2014 - so Zero should "prove" that the newer bikes are actually as robust as they want them to be.

[dennis-NL]

I ride a 2013DS 32000km with 12.5kW battery replaced previous owner (11.4kW battery was fine, but <free> recall by Zero because of possible production error).
Ride in any weather for over 10000km now and bike was/is perfectly performing.

Went to my new dealer and he was surprised:
* 2013 had better front brakes (Nissin) than 2018 model (floating both pads on 2013, on 2018 1 side floating)
* he saw some other minor differences better on 2013

So on a 2018 model u would expect better, for sure because of the (his words) "insane" prices.

But, I'm really happy with my bike and its very reliable, sure I have my wishes.

Zero should/could offer:

* standard: 4kW/h charging in belly pan (really, no increase from 2013 till now is really like.........)
* optional:  8kW/h, 12kW/h, ... in belly pan (something like Diginow 2.5 proves it's possible), get rid of charge tank option, weight to high on bike
* standard: use all space available in dummytank for storage, maybe even possible get a helmet in there???
* standard: make frame wider and little higher (like "normal" bikes) to have the battery options: 8kW, 16kW, 24kW, ... (standard 8kW to keep price lower but still acceptable range for most)
* optional:  faring with options: >10% , >20%, >30% increased range at 100km/h
* optional:  battery heating if temperature <0 degrees in winter (now my charging sometimes will start after 1 hour, even if I've just been riding it in winter...)
* standard: LED
* standard: make the long front fender of DS/DSR model more rigid (I now have put the metal guard on it, so I don't get sick watching it bouncing on highway speeds, and more stable ride!)
* optional:  3 different seats (comfort)
* optional: ALL possible adapters connecting house / chargestations options to your bike and different lenghts of cables

* better communication with dealers and deliver items faster, watch out dealers will drop out (for sure if Honda, BMW or any large brand will making large quantities electric bikes in future)
* warranty on battery <80% capacity should be 200000km OR 10 years, AND 200000km on electronics/motor:  so every potential buyer and owner is not thinking about it anymore. Also for reselling would be better.
* have a Europe based storage so bikes/items are cheaper and faster to get in Europe (my Givi topbox and Zero rack was 5 weeks waiting)

[NEW2elec]

A dealer "certified" used extended warranty would help trade ins.  Higher on board chargers only work for higher non U.S. outlet options.  That why those have stayed at the same 1.3W rate.

I expect at least one big new bike option for 2019.  I'll see if I'm right soon enough.

[togo]

What? How is a genuine apology a bit harsh? ...

"Sorry if you thought..." says you are not sorry about what you said.  You are throwing the blame for the offence on the person offended.  I.e. it sounds not genuine, regardless of how genuinely you meant it.   

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I first want to say that for such a young company they are doing rather well.
My wish list.  Most of this should not break the bank for Zero.

Fairing. Full or partial. Streamlined to increase range and comfort.
Redesigned rear with a mudguard. Who wants dirt all over the rear of the bike. The current back end looks stylish but is not very functional. 
Cruise control. Why not. You can already set max speed. Why not set cruise speed too.
Traction control. Optional of course. Not everyone has tens of years of experience to help with the right wrist throttle control.
More profiles. 3 is very basic.
12 volt 10-20 amp outlet. For heated grips, wests, etc.
USB plug. For charging phone or powering SatNav.
Low power high output light. LED or similar. 
Better options for mounting top box and panniers.
Easily mountable range extending battery packs. That you can rent when going on longer trips. Current range of up to 200 km mixed for the S ZF14.4 is plenty for me for daily use.
OBDII connector.
Lower price for mid level models. I cannot justify the cost to my bank manager. I could buy used but they are expensive too and the unknown condition of the battery pack makes it a high risk gamble.
Get rid of firmware issues.

[heroto]

More than one custom mode.

[Apriliarsv]

Traction control is nice but I think several power modes would work just
as good and be way cheaper to implement.
Aprilia has a Rain mode on entry level bikes like the Shiver.



To the experienced riders that say all the traction control you need is in your
wrist. Just remember that on a gas bike you also are using your 5-6 speed
transmission as a form of traction control. Think short shifting.On the Zero
you do not have this option.

[MrDude_1]

Traction control is nice but I think several power modes would work just
as good and be way cheaper to implement.
Aprilia has a Rain mode on entry level bikes like the Shiver.



To the experienced riders that say all the traction control you need is in your
wrist. Just remember that on a gas bike you also are using your 5-6 speed
transmission as a form of traction control. Think short shifting.On the Zero
you do not have this option.

The problem with multiple power modes is you never get MORE power.. only less.
a single "low power, im scared because its raining" mode is fine. All the power limiting modes do is make me have to hit the button more times to get it to "off".