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[oregonrider89]

What would I buy?

Put 8 bricks of battery packs together in a beefed up frame, add Tesla compatible charging and a slick aerodynamic package making for a long-range (~200 mi.) cruiser. Oh, then we would need cruise control.

[Toes]

My 2017 DSR already has traction control.........it's called Eco mode.  Seriously, the power reduction in Eco mode on my DSR is so significant that I doubt I could spin the rear wheel on anything but maybe a solid sheet of ice.  The Eco mode on my FXS wasn't as pronounced.

Is this everyone's experience that owns a DSR?  How about those who have other models?

I own an FXS and we had dealer days this past weekend at our local dealership, so I rode the SR. In eco mode it is a dog, more so than my FXS, so yes, I can confirm what you state. I am guessing that the actual programming may be very similar, but the SR is a lot heavier than the FXS.

[ChibiBiker]

I'd like to see active variable re-gen some day- I know there are some posts for it on the unofficial Zero manual, but I'd love to convert my vestigial left foot downshift motion into anywhere from coasting at 0 Re-gen to enough to stop the bike decently quickly -- like the finesse of stopping with your rear brake only.

-- Oh, and +1 better firmware/testing.  I purchased my 2018 SR with the Quick Charger and I've only had it for a total of 7 days since my March 14th purchase due to charger errors.  I've taken it in three times and my most recent issue may be inherent to all quick chargers -- an inability to tolerate a quick charge station throttling from 6kW to 3kW.  I'm also the one to thank that now Zero must test all quick chargers for a minimum of 20 minutes as they were having overheating issues at the 20 minute mark.  Woo...

Cheers,

PS, can you make this variable regen reverse compatible with previous gen models? Thanks! =o)

[ultratoad]

I still can't shake the need for an Alta Supermoto !!!!

[heroto]

Summary of several prior "You kids get off my lawn" posts by luddite elitists:

"I don't need no stinkin' ABS/traction control/cruise control/ etc etc -- and therefore neither do you!"

Pretty much every major manufacturer offers traction control on motos with far less torque than the Zeros. Why? Because it's a good idea!
It can be turned off if that's your preference. Congrats to you that you are motorcycle God and don't need it, fine, but don't bitch if other riders do. It's a performance and safety feature that helps a lot of riders.

[Richard230]

Summary of several prior "You kids get off my lawn" posts by luddite elitists:

"I don't need no stinkin' ABS/traction control/cruise control/ etc etc -- and therefore neither do you!"

Pretty much every major manufacturer offers traction control on motos with far less torque than the Zeros. Why? Because it's a good idea!
It can be turned off if that's your preference. Congrats to you that you are motorcycle God and don't need it, fine, but don't bitch if other riders do. It's a performance and safety feature that helps a lot of riders.

I have never felt the need for ABS or traction control on my IC motorcycles, but I feel differently when riding my Zero.  The Zero has no flywheel effect (having no flywheel  ) and therefore if the rear wheel slips when accelerating or braking, there is no delay once the wheel start spinning or skidding.  It happens faster than I can react. So I appreciate ABS and would also appreciate traction control.

Whereas with most IC motorcycles, their engine inertia will somewhat control and dampen the rapid spinning of the rear wheel so that you have at least a little time to react and reduce engine or braking power to match the amount of perceived traction, that doesn't seem to be the case with an electric motor drive system.

[Fred]

Summary of several prior "You kids get off my lawn" posts by luddite elitists:

"I don't need no stinkin' ABS/traction control/cruise control/ etc etc -- and therefore neither do you!"

Really? I definitely don't need or want traction control, but I've never said you shouldn't be allowed it. I don't think anyone's said that either.

(Also, I think instead of "luddite elitists" you mean "riders more skilled than yourself". )

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Summary of several prior "You kids get off my lawn" posts by luddite elitists:

"I don't need no stinkin' ABS/traction control/cruise control/ etc etc -- and therefore neither do you!"

Pretty much every major manufacturer offers traction control on motos with far less torque than the Zeros. Why? Because it's a good idea!
It can be turned off if that's your preference. Congrats to you that you are motorcycle God and don't need it, fine, but don't bitch if other riders do. It's a performance and safety feature that helps a lot of riders.

I have never felt the need for ABS or traction control on my IC motorcycles, but I feel differently when riding my Zero.  The Zero has no flywheel effect (having no flywheel  ) and therefore if the rear wheel slips when accelerating or braking, there is no delay once the wheel start spinning or skidding.  It happens faster than I can react. So I appreciate ABS and would also appreciate traction control.

Whereas with most IC motorcycles, their engine inertia will somewhat control and dampen the rapid spinning of the rear wheel so that you have at least a little time to react and reduce engine or braking power to match the amount of perceived traction, that doesn't seem to be the case with an electric motor drive system.

I have experienced this directly, fishtailing in oily situations on rough-pavement hills in Seattle in the rain. The bike (my 2013 DS in that case) is controllable and recoverable but it's at least worth considering tweaking the "poor man's traction control" of limiting the RPM ramp rate in the Sevcon controller to avoid spin-up which can be scary or at least catch the rider off-guard and cause them to low-side in (say) an intersection where they are vulnerable to traffic.

Eco mode is the workaround for now - if you suspect that traction is limited, put the bike in Eco mode so you don't get a sudden surprise.

Zeros do get damaged because of a loss of traction and this feature would address that.

Naturally, anyone who wants to perform a burnout or something will want to override this, so it is a feature request if applied generally and not just a settings update.

[heroto]

Summary of several prior "You kids get off my lawn" posts by luddite elitists:

"I don't need no stinkin' ABS/traction control/cruise control/ etc etc -- and therefore neither do you!"

I think instead of "luddite elitists" you mean "riders more skilled than yourself". )

Sure, Fred, I readily accept that there are many riders more skilled than me. I'm downright sure of it. If they don't want traction control, fine.
 
My point is NOT that everyone should want TC. If you don't need it even with the instant torque Zeros deliver good on you.
Rather
I wish that Zero would offer TC, just like pretty much every other moto manufacturer. Even Vespa has TC! It's not that exotic. Sure make it optional or switchable so you can turn it off if you prefer. Like for riding on gravel or trails or whatever. But make it available.

And I still object to smug posts that tell me that what I want is wrong because it's not what the superior poster thinks I should want.

[ultrarnr]

To all who think you can always control a Zero SR if the back tire breaks loose you are fooling yourself, because you can't, because you won't even realize what is happening to you. I speak from personal experience. A few years ago I was charging my SR at the Deals Gap campground. The ground was damp but all pavement was dry. When I got done charging I headed out to ride the Tail of the Dragon, never giving a thought that my back tire was damp and that traction may not be what I was expecting. As soon as I got heading straight up US-29 I pinned the throttle which I distinctly remember doing. Instantly I had no idea what was going on or what was happening or when it might end. When I came to I was about ten feet away from my SR, laying on the ground. I looked over to Deals Gap and riders were rushing over to help me and get everything out of the road. Based on all the scrapes to my helmet and riding gear I clearly took quite a tumble off the bike. I don't remember any of it. The left handlebar hit my left leg so hard it took a month and a half for the pain to completely go away. Can only compare it to someone hitting my leg with a baseball bat as hard as they could. But my left leg is only about 18 inches from the handlebar. So in that short of a movement the handlebar was able to inflict a very severe soft tissue injury.  Having put over 38K miles on a Zero SR the one aspect of the bike that impresses me far more than any other aspect is how violently you can get removed from the bike if the back tire breaks loose under the right conditions.

[MostlyBonkers]

To all who think you can always control a Zero SR if the back tire breaks loose you are fooling yourself, because you can't, because you won't even realize what is happening to you. I speak from personal experience. A few years ago I was charging my SR at the Deals Gap campground. The ground was damp but all pavement was dry. When I got done charging I headed out to ride the Tail of the Dragon, never giving a thought that my back tire was damp and that traction may not be what I was expecting. As soon as I got heading straight up US-29 I pinned the throttle which I distinctly remember doing. Instantly I had no idea what was going on or what was happening or when it might end. When I came to I was about ten feet away from my SR, laying on the ground. I looked over to Deals Gap and riders were rushing over to help me and get everything out of the road. Based on all the scrapes to my helmet and riding gear I clearly took quite a tumble off the bike. I don't remember any of it. The left handlebar hit my left leg so hard it took a month and a half for the pain to completely go away. Can only compare it to someone hitting my leg with a baseball bat as hard as they could. But my left leg is only about 18 inches from the handlebar. So in that short of a movement the handlebar was able to inflict a very severe soft tissue injury.  Having put over 38K miles on a Zero SR the one aspect of the bike that impresses me far more than any other aspect is how violently you can get removed from the bike if the back tire breaks loose under the right conditions.

Aye to that!  Having had a very similar experience, I'm all for traction control.  Even Brian's idea for a poor man's version would be a giant leap beyond what we have now.

I was thrown off in the blink of an eye. No time to react.

[Doug S]

Everybody's got an opinion, including me.

When I was younger, I got in trouble on the motorcycle fairly often. Low-siding when a misty rain had made painted markers on the pavement very slippery or when gravel made the traction disappear, just plain misjudging a curve when riding too fast, etc.

But it's been years, maybe decades, since anything like that happened to me. Maybe I just don't feel the need to ride as fast as I used to, or maybe more experience leads me to not over-drive my line of sight, or whatever. It's not necessarily about being a better rider, it's about higher experience and awareness levels keeping me from getting INTO the kind of jams I used to be unable to get out of. I now know just how slippery those painted markers can be, and to look for gravel on the outside of curves. Everybody has to learn these things at a young age; some of us have already learned those lessons.

For that reason, I don't care for traction control. I don't really want to spend the extra money to amortize the development and/or licensing costs. I don't want to pay for any extra components (I don't think my 2014 SR even has wheel speed sensors), nor do I want to carry the extra weight around. I can see the value in traction control for those who don't have the experience levels of some of us yet, but I also think those lessons about traction are important ones and should be learned by every rider at some point. If we keep catering to the lowest common denominator, we'll all be riding around with outriggers soon.

That's my opinion, FWIW. Yours may vary.

[domingo3]

Everybody's got an opinion, including me.

When I was younger, I got in trouble on the motorcycle fairly often. Low-siding when a misty rain had made painted markers on the pavement very slippery or when gravel made the traction disappear, just plain misjudging a curve when riding too fast, etc.

But it's been years, maybe decades, since anything like that happened to me. Maybe I just don't feel the need to ride as fast as I used to, or maybe more experience leads me to not over-drive my line of sight, or whatever. It's not necessarily about being a better rider, it's about higher experience and awareness levels keeping me from getting INTO the kind of jams I used to be unable to get out of. I now know just how slippery those painted markers can be, and to look for gravel on the outside of curves. Everybody has to learn these things at a young age; some of us have already learned those lessons.

For that reason, I don't care for traction control. I don't really want to spend the extra money to amortize the development and/or licensing costs. I don't want to pay for any extra components (I don't think my 2014 SR even has wheel speed sensors), nor do I want to carry the extra weight around. I can see the value in traction control for those who don't have the experience levels of some of us yet, but I also think those lessons about traction are important ones and should be learned by every rider at some point. If we keep catering to the lowest common denominator, we'll all be riding around with outriggers soon.

That's my opinion, FWIW. Yours may vary.

I accept your points about paying for development costs, equipment and weight.  This may be naivety on my part, but I would think that the "poor man's" version would be extremely low cost.  No wheel sensor would be needed since you already have motor RPM.  It would seem to me that the programming would be pretty simple using the tech that's already on the bike.

[Fred]

And I still object to smug posts that tell me that what I want is wrong because it's not what the superior poster thinks I should want.

You're still missing the point. You want traction control. I don't. We're both right. I've never said you're wrong or shouldn't want it. (Remember the post title is "what do we want for 2019".)

Also, didn't your post say something entirely different before you edited it? I got an email notification to that effect anyway.

I was only joking about more skilled riders by the way. Sorry if you thought I was being serious.

[togo]

> I still can't shake the need for an Alta Supermoto !!!!

Are you in the right forum?