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Author Topic: What do we want for 2019?  (Read 15166 times)

MostlyBonkers

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Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #150 on: October 14, 2018, 12:54:42 AM »

Please be aware that China is actually really good at automation.  If you don't think so, look at your phone.

Automation is great, but its expensive and time consuming to design custom production lines, so in most cases, it requires volume.  Good manufactures do manual where it makes sense and automation when it makes sense.  Tesla is learning this lesson right now.

The problem with Zero is that Zero has zero volume.  Other industries would laugh at Zero's volume and that means that Zero does not have a lot of buying power.  I'm sure some of Zero's parts are off the shelf, but I don't think there is much volume there either.

What I want in 2019 is for Zero to increase it sales, make a profit and improve their company - better service, better reliability, lower prices, more models and accessories.  I don't know, but based on Zero's cash injections last year, I don't think they are profitable yet.  I've heard former employees say that they need to double there sales to break even.

I think tariffs are stupid.  They may protect a American job that his hanging by a thread, but I don't think it would get one back.

+1

It just seems so damn difficult for Zero to sell their bikes. Putting aside Policemen patrolling parks, movie makers (conveniently local) and nerds (I include myself in that category), nobody wants to touch them. Zeros are motorcycles after all, which seems to exclude about 99% of the population.  99% of bikers stop listening as soon as you start talking about range and charging times. It's a really a tough sell.

So perhaps Zero should invest in some marketing that firstly spreads the word and then challenges some of the false assumptions people have.

I've just spent two and a half years riding my Zero and have clocked up 25,000 miles.  During those two years I've benefited from extremely low running costs. Putting reliability issues aside, it has been a dream to own and use regularly. No maintenance, no visits to petrol stations, etc, etc...  All that time I thought I was riding the very best bike for my commute bar the more powerful SR or DSR models.

Just recently I bought a Honda CB1000R, you know, the funky new one.  It drinks fuel, needed a service after only 600 miles, has gears to change, a chain to lube every 200 miles (every few days for me) and I've managed to stall it, crunch the gears, find false neutrals, put it in neutral when I needed a gear, etc, etc...

So, which is the best bike for my commute?  The Honda.  It is just so much more fun!  In fact, it's so much fun that I absolutely don't give a damn about how much it's costing me in petrol.  The act of filling it up has become a welcome reminder that I'm using it and having the time of my life!  What an amazing bike!!!  It's lively, has a real spirit to it, suits me perfectly and is a dream to ride.  What's more, it's a lot safer than my Zero because it accelerates faster, breaks quicker, has more grip and has that all important traction control. The fact that it looks superb is just the icing on the cake.

Bikes like the Honda CB1000R are what Zero is up against. They need to make a bike that is more compelling than the current crop of top end bikes.  I think it's possible. Why? Because of all the shortcomings that ICE bikes have and we're all so familiar with.

There is no doubt in my mind that electric motorcycles will get a healthy share of the market eventually. My list of things they need to introduce as soon as they can is:


Aerodynamic fairings for a touring bike.

200 miles+ of range at a constant 70-80mph.

Active thermal management for all the components that need it (motor and battery mainly).

Traction control

Rapid charging capable of 20-85% SoC in five minutes.

Weight as low as possible, but keeping in mind that a BMW 1600RT weighs around 380kg.  You can get a really decent battery pack in a big bike like that. 

I'd make a big tourer that was inspired by the 1600RT but weighs 350kg, has a range of 250 miles and all the gadgets etc with a price tag a couple of thousand below the RT.  Chuck in a really sweet breakdown recovery package too so if someone does get stuck while touring, they get very quick five star treatment.  So good in fact that they'll be begging the bike to breakdown because their holiday will improve!

Make a no frills commuter that is the same price as the competition, faster and costs nothing to run.

I'm sure that some of that is possible with current technology.  If not, it will be in five years time.
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heroto

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Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #151 on: October 14, 2018, 06:39:11 AM »

Good post.
Gotta have traction control, heated grips, 12v port, and a real windshield or better yet fairing and windshield.

Also: upgrade regenerative braking. Right now it is just on or off, would be improved if proportional to lever effort. And right now there is a short time lag before activation and a similar lag in deactivation compared to brake lever position. You notice this more if you ride in custom mode with no coasting regen. Just too primitive for 2019.

How long until next gen batteries are in production?
 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:41:25 AM by heroto »
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centra12

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Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #152 on: October 14, 2018, 02:46:23 PM »

I'm worried if the Zero quality and the dealer network will stay that way and the Elektor hype is over it will be even more difficult for Zero
Even the debacle of the 2012 Zero this year is likely to deter some customers next year as well.

https://www.christian-jog.de
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BamBam

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Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #153 on: October 19, 2018, 12:38:56 AM »

I’ve been following this tread for quite a while and thought I would chime in with some comments.  First, I think some of the opinions and expectations expressed in this thread may be a bit unrealistic and overly critical of Zero as a company.  I think what Zero has accomplished thus far is amazing.  The current model line offered by Zero, in my opinion, is spot on and has something to offer for just about everyone.  Everything from an entry level FX to the sport oriented SR.  I think Zero should just focus on the current six models they produce and work to make them the best that they can be.

Yes there have been some service and support nightmares and Zero definitely needs to work on that.  However, I have owned an FXS and currently own a DSR and have had zero (no pun intended) issues with either one of them.  The firmware updates are also a problem, if from nothing other than a perception standpoint.  I’ve read so many posts about problems that have occurred after performing a firmware update that I’ve put off doing it out of fear that it might mess something up.  I still have the original firmware that came with the bike when it was new.  Since I’m happy with the way my bike is performing I plan to keep it that way unless I can be thoroughly convinced the update will be an improvement.  So far that hasn’t happened.  Zero needs to do a much better job of communicating exactly what the firmware update is intended to fix, what it will affect, and what results to expect.  There should also be a way to revert back to a previous firmware version if we’re not happy with the results or something goes awry.

Secondly, I don’t think that Zero should attempt to compete in the world of large cruisers or liter class race bikes as some posts have suggested.  Those bikes are built for a completely different purpose and I think trying to compare the Zero line up to either of those types of bikes is misguided.  The Zero’s are built for short to medium range commuting.  That is where they excel and that is what I think Zero should stay focused on.  I use my DSR for every day commuting and don’t think I would ever go back to a conventional ICE bike for that.  My DSR is perfect for that role.  I also have a Honda Valkyrie that I use for highway cruising, day rides, and long range touring and I think the Valkyrie is perfect for that role.  I would never think of interchanging the roles for either of those bikes.  They are two completely different bikes, built for two completely different purposes.
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Currently Owned Bikes:
2017 Zero DSR Limited Edition (original owner, running)
2008 Kawasaki KLR 650 (original owner, red now black, running)
1997 Honda Valkyrie (original owner, first year in black, running)
1975 Kawasaki H2 750 (original owner, purple, not running)

dennis-NL

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Re: What do we want for 2019?
« Reply #154 on: October 19, 2018, 01:23:39 PM »

They made the Black Forest edition for Europe just because of high demant of touring.

I think good.
Just ad some fairing also.
Touring in Europe is mostly 150-300km a day, perfectly doable on a Zero.

Cruiser would be great for that role also.
Room for 2 battery packs and weight is no issue.
Shouldn't be to hard to make 1 with current parts, tho new frame is needed.....
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current:  DS2013 12.5 50500km 22-feb-2019
previous: MotoGuzzi 1100Cal-96, Yamaha TDM850-00, Honda Magna700-86, Honda Shadow500-86

8) Enjoy each ride, now you can hear and feel everything around you !!!!
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