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[Shadow]

...the reason they told me was because I use the Zero supplied QuiQ charger in addition to the onboard...

Are they suggesting you not use the onboard charger when using instead a QuiQ charger?  I'm confused they said not to use the QuiQ but does that mean to use only the onboard or to use only the QuiQ?

[Richard230]

JamieC —. Any idea what firmware revision you were on?

I found my 2016SR+PT now with v51 to be absolutely horrible. SOC gauge and charging are all off. It was perfect with the previous version 49.  Bike goes to 0% at only 55 miles now, used to be 120+. Sometimes it goes turtle mode while indicating 50%. Battery shows kwhr numbers that make no sense. Should hold 14kwhr, but only takes 9-10 from the wall but indicates it took 12, and I’m pretty sure the charger isn’t over unity.   when I talked to the dealer and they talked to Zero, the reason they told me was because I use the Zero supplied QuiQ charger in addition to the onboard and I shouldn’t do that!  Needless to say that I’m pretty upset about this version and the deferral from Zero that this is my fault for using the QuiQ that they sold me.

I’m trying to get in to the dealer again for the third time as I hear there is now a v52 for the 2016.  Otherwise this thing has become nearly useless as I don’t know if it can make the trip to work or not...


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My 2018 Zero visited the shop a couple of weeks ago and it was checked for the latest app and firmware.  This is what the Zero app shows as installed in my phone and my bike:

"App Version 1.6.50 (21)"
"OS Version 5.1.1 (22)"

Things seem to be working OK for me using these versions.  My only observation is that the firmware installed in my bike seems to be more conservative regarding range than that of my 2014 S. But the difference is not too great, maybe 10% less.  I am seeing a slightly lower voltage when fully charged and a lower range estimate too.  My 2014, when it was new and fully charged, used to show 117 volts and 180 mile range, but my 2018 bike shows 116 volts (drops to 115 volts almost immediately) and an estimated range of 130 miles when first turned on with a 100% charge.  However, I wouldn't be surprised if that was done on purpose by Zero to provide a range "cushion" below 0% and to attempt to increase the life of their battery pack by reducing the maximum and minimum voltages of the cells by the BMS. (All of my charging is performed by the on-board charger.)

[jnef]

...the reason they told me was because I use the Zero supplied QuiQ charger in addition to the onboard...

Are they suggesting you not use the onboard charger when using instead a QuiQ charger?  I'm confused they said not to use the QuiQ but does that mean to use only the onboard or to use only the QuiQ?

They told me that I should only use the onboard and not add the QuiQs, as charging at 33A can cause the pack to lose isolation and become imbalanced...


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[Shadow]

"App Version 1.6.50 (21)"
"OS Version 5.1.1 (22)"

Those are not anything to do with the bike, only your phone device.

[gborgan]

I just got off the phone with my local dealer.  Here's the situation:  Ever since the last software update, the bike has been acting as though it has the 9.6 kWh battery pack and not the 13 kWh pack.  From the numbers on the dash and on the Android app, my starting range is SIGNIFICANTLY lower in the morning than it used to be.

Before the flash, it would typically show anywhere between 80 - 100 miles remaining.  Now, it typically indicates 55 - 70 miles remaining.  This isn't the FIRST winter I've had the bike, and although I expect the starting range to be somewhat lower on colder mornings, it's never been THIS low before.

Second is the rate of discharge I'm seeing.  Before the flash, I would get to the office with roughly 80% of the battery remaining.  Now I'm seeing less than 70%.  The one way distance (mostly highway at 70 mph) is 17 miles.

The dealer offered to come over to the house and fetch the bike tomorrow (which is more than I expected; I thought I'd have to make an appointment to drop it off myself).  I'll let you know what they find but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen anything like this, or have any guesses as to what is going on?  The bike is still under warranty (it'll expire in April) and the battery warranty still has more than three years left so I'm not worried about any of that.

Exact same problem going on with my 2015 SR. Noticed an immediate reduction in range after Firmware. Unlike most readers here, I have not been interested in the various windows on the dash or using the App. I just depend on battery gauge and trip odometer. I should have switched to Range earlier as I know I would have realized a definite rather than an estimated problem.  My riding area is well defined. I never got less than 0.7 miles per 1%, or est 70 miles at freeway speed. Now I get 0.5. I often got 1.2 or 1.3 riding around 45 mph or less. Now it’s never more than 1 to 1.
The app shows 9.3 kWh capacity with te 12.5 battery. The loss of range is about the same % as loss of battery capacity.

My dealer sent all the info to Zero and we await their reply.  Glad to know I’m not alone. -George


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[Richard230]

"App Version 1.6.50 (21)"
"OS Version 5.1.1 (22)"

Those are not anything to do with the bike, only your phone device.

Well then, that is not very helpful when it comes to checking for the latest firmware update. 

[JaimeC]

... when I talked to the dealer and they talked to Zero, the reason they told me was because I use the Zero supplied QuiQ charger in addition to the onboard and I shouldn’t do that!  Needless to say that I’m pretty upset about this version and the deferral from Zero that this is my fault for using the QuiQ that they sold me.

That's RIDICULOUS.  That is exactly how you're SUPPOSED to use the QuiQ charger!  If not, it's not a "Quick Charger" because it'll charge even slower than the onboard charger.

Are you SURE that's what Zero told the dealer, or is the dealer making something up to get you off his back??

[jnef]

Exact same problem going on with my 2015 SR. Noticed an immediate reduction in range after Firmware. Unlike most readers here, I have not been interested in the various windows on the dash or using the App. I just depend on battery gauge and trip odometer. I should have switched to Range earlier as I know I would have realized a definite rather than an estimated problem.  My riding area is well defined. I never got less than 0.7 miles per 1%, or est 70 miles at freeway speed. Now I get 0.5. I often got 1.2 or 1.3 riding around 45 mph or less. Now it’s never more than 1 to 1.
The app shows 9.3 kWh capacity with te 12.5 battery. The loss of range is about the same % as loss of battery capacity.

My dealer sent all the info to Zero and we await their reply.  Glad to know I’m not alone. -George


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I have noticed that it’s variable as well. Ride the bike until it dies and the next time the gauge will be closer. Partial charges and higher rate charges will mess it up again. Sometimes it will report that there are 25kwhr, sometimes 8kwhr.  Regardless, my range, like yours, is clearly 25% lower regardless of SOC indication based on riding to the point it can’t maintain highway speed. The Wh/mi measurement also agrees with the reduction.

My big problem is twofold:  I can’t tell how much range I’ll have on any given charge (even though that objectively is based on cell voltage); and Zero refuses to accept that this is a problem at all and blames it on us when it was clearly working fine before.   As a long term EV user and advocate, I accept a lot of early adopter and SOC uncertainty issues, but being blamed for their bad firmware (for using their charger!) is just offensive. 


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[jnef]

... when I talked to the dealer and they talked to Zero, the reason they told me was because I use the Zero supplied QuiQ charger in addition to the onboard and I shouldn’t do that!  Needless to say that I’m pretty upset about this version and the deferral from Zero that this is my fault for using the QuiQ that they sold me.

That's RIDICULOUS.  That is exactly how you're SUPPOSED to use the QuiQ charger!  If not, it's not a "Quick Charger" because it'll charge even slower than the onboard charger.

Are you SURE that's what Zero told the dealer, or is the dealer making something up to get you off his back??

Yup, that is what they told the dealer and then told me.  So I haven’t used the QuiQs unless absolutely necessary since then. But since it has this problem, I haven’t been riding much at all as I don’t like getting stuck — pushed too many EVs to a plug in my life already.


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[gborgan]

I think you’re quoting two posters here. I came into the discussion two pages late.  I only related to losing range and apparent battery capacity after the Update. I don’t use a QuiQ charger although I have one. 


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[Richard230]

I finally remembered how to decode bike logs.  I ended up with 6834 log entries, the first 1100 logs were before my 2018 S ever left the factory. I have firmware revision 1536, Board revision 125 and Model W (whatever that means) 

[JaimeC]

Just got off the phone with the dealer.  They claim they worked with Zero techs and couldn't find anything wrong with the bike, and that Zero is saying the issue has to do with the drop in temperature.  This is the second winter I've had this bike and last winter I NEVER saw a drop in range like I'm seeing since this last update.  They're going to deliver the bike back to me, but I told them when the weather warms up, I'm going to double check their claims.  Something isn't right.

[Worksoptony]

@ Gborgan.

Have you heard anything back from Zero? As with yourself and others I have lost about 20% after the firmware update.

[jef.jakobs]

I have updated firmware on a 2016 S. Had a few days of warmer weather, and got my range back during those days. Hoping your bike will do the same!


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[JaimeC]

I have updated firmware on a 2016 S. Had a few days of warmer weather, and got my range back during those days. Hoping your bike will do the same!

We've got two warm(er) days of steady rain here, followed by ANOTHER deep freeze so it'll be awhile before I get to verify this for myself.