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Author Topic: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR  (Read 2126 times)

What_clutch

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Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« on: July 06, 2017, 02:00:42 AM »

I plugged in the motorcycle and nothing happened. So I checked the wall outlet and nothing was wrong with the voltage it was provided but decided to try a different wall outlet, when I did and plugged it in and out 3-4 times. I herd a weird almost vibrating sound from what sounded like the on board charger at the bottom and it did its normal click and started charging. Or so I thought, the charging light blinked 7-8 times and it stopped blinking but the battery percentage remained up as if it was charging but also wasn't indicating how long till it'd be done charging. So I unplugged it again and did everything the same and again the same thing happened. Switched the bike on, put the kickstand up everything along with the lights was normal and gave it a little throttle and everything seemed fine but I did notice the battery percentage had jumped up from 38ish to 42. So I plugged it back in and it did the same thing so I pulled up the error codes which were all the same you'd normally get with the kickstand down and the killswitch in the "off" position but also read 06 and 47 codes. This was while the green light has stopped flashing, time indicator when battery will be finished charging not displaying a number but the battery percentage up on the screen and the lights blinking on the red and green on the bms. I left it alone for a while and tried plugging it back in again just now and now it acts as if I haven't plugged anything in so I can't charge the motorcycle. Also those same error codes I pulled off there do not come on anymore while I have it plugged in with the key switched on to check the error codes with the stand down and kill switch in "off" exactly as I did the time before. Also tripped the circuit breaker. I have herd of people saying to take the ground plug off the cord, so what do you fellas suggest I do. Should I have the charger replaced under warrantee and then buy one of the other chargers and remove that to have it as a backup or?
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Electric Terry

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 03:28:51 AM »

I wish Zero would choose another charger manufacturer for the S/SR/DS/DSR. So strange but the Calex on the FX has been one of the most reliable components on the FX. But the 1300 watt version they can't seem to get right even after 6 revisions.

If it's under warranty let the dealer replace it at no cost to you. But I'd recommentld just getting a supercharger and using that most of the time instead, even if you have the Charger replaced
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clay.leihy

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 04:03:47 AM »

Are all these chargers dying at once?

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 05:58:47 AM »

There's an unofficial manual section for onboard charger problems. Removing the grounding prong is the suggestion for GFCI trips, but generally the recommendation is to maintain the cord and plug inlet using some contact cleaner:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Problems#Charging

Whether that will save a charger that is already showing some failure signs is nothing I can predict, but it can't hurt to check the inlet for signs of burns, dirt, or corrosion.

I do recommend using contact cleaner to keep the inlet clean. Preventing heating or sparks there probably reduces some causes of charger failures.

Charging failure rates seem to be occasional but seems to happen early in the bike's life, if at all. It looks from your posts that you've had the bike for a year now.
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tmhuud

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 06:48:34 AM »

Hmmm.  I am having the same issues with my '14 S.  Charge blew out. $900 bones.  Not sure what to do but the bike has been going to the shop more often than I'd hoped. The battery was JUST replaced.  Following this thread with much interest.
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Electric Terry

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 06:30:07 PM »

Hmmm.  I am having the same issues with my '14 S.  Charge blew out. $900 bones.  Not sure what to do but the bike has been going to the shop more often than I'd hoped. The battery was JUST replaced.  Following this thread with much interest.

If you have a 14 and its out of warranty there is no reason to get another stock charger.  Call Hollywood Electrics and see what options fit your usage best.  It is possible that if you only use your bike for commuting and have never gone more than 50 miles in a day, another stock charger is best.  However if you have wanted to go further before, getting an aftermarket charger that fits in the tank could solve 2 problems at once.  (get you charging again, get you able to travel/go further, apply that $900 towards the fast charger)

Hollywood Electrics has a bunch of charging options, (Delta Q, Calex 1.3, Elcon 2500, Zero ChargeTank 2.5, Diginow 3.3, Diginow Suercharger 6.6) so give them a call and let them see what is best for you.
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What_clutch

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 02:45:17 AM »

I wish Zero would choose another charger manufacturer for the S/SR/DS/DSR. So strange but the Calex on the FX has been one of the most reliable components on the FX. But the 1300 watt version they can't seem to get right even after 6 revisions.

If it's under warranty let the dealer replace it at no cost to you. But I'd recommentld just getting a supercharger and using that most of the time instead, even if you have the Charger replaced

I wish they would to since I've came across so many threads on them failing.

It should be under warrantee I've only had the bike for a year and maybe a year or two. I will be having the charger replaced since it seems like I have no other option as diginow is backordered from Hollywood electrics for a couple of months out and I forget the brand of the one from Australia that there's a post on here about but there's no testimonials on that. Did you keep your onboard charger along with the supercharger?
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Electric Terry

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 03:33:43 AM »

I wish Zero would choose another charger manufacturer for the S/SR/DS/DSR. So strange but the Calex on the FX has been one of the most reliable components on the FX. But the 1300 watt version they can't seem to get right even after 6 revisions.

If it's under warranty let the dealer replace it at no cost to you. But I'd recommentld just getting a supercharger and using that most of the time instead, even if you have the Charger replaced

I wish they would to since I've came across so many threads on them failing.

It should be under warrantee I've only had the bike for a year and maybe a year or two. I will be having the charger replaced since it seems like I have no other option as diginow is backordered from Hollywood electrics for a couple of months out and I forget the brand of the one from Australia that there's a post on here about but there's no testimonials on that. Did you keep your onboard charger along with the supercharger?

Personally I removed my stock Calex (had 3 fail over 2 years (38,000 miles) and just wasn't too excited about bothering Customer Service at Zero for another as the weight is the same for 1.3 kW Calex as 6.6 kW (5 times more power dense! FIVE TIMES for the same weight!!!) for a Diginow Supercharger and still waterproof and can enable charging and do everything the stock Calex can)

But I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else. If you're thinking about it (electrical engineer hackers) you know who you are. Otherwise, keep the stock Calex charger.  If it fails and you are in warranty just get another.  It is definitely the weakest component on the Zero by far.  The rest of the bike is rock solid!

But do get the supercharger in the tank area, or if you have a powertank, for your top case, pannier mounts or crash bar mounts (many places to mount waterproof chargers).  You'll never regret getting it one bit once you use it the first time. It's totally freaking amazing the power out of such a small package.  I wish I had that in 2014, but it just came available this year! ;)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:45:45 AM by Electric Terry »
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What_clutch

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 04:24:26 AM »

I wish Zero would choose another charger manufacturer for the S/SR/DS/DSR. So strange but the Calex on the FX has been one of the most reliable components on the FX. But the 1300 watt version they can't seem to get right even after 6 revisions.

If it's under warranty let the dealer replace it at no cost to you. But I'd recommentld just getting a supercharger and using that most of the time instead, even if you have the Charger replaced

I wish they would to since I've came across so many threads on them failing.

It should be under warrantee I've only had the bike for a year and maybe a year or two. I will be having the charger replaced since it seems like I have no other option as diginow is backordered from Hollywood electrics for a couple of months out and I forget the brand of the one from Australia that there's a post on here about but there's no testimonials on that. Did you keep your onboard charger along with the supercharger?

Personally I removed my stock Calex (had 3 fail over 2 years (38,000 miles) and just wasn't too excited about bothering Customer Service at Zero for another as the weight is the same for 1.3 kW Calex as 6.6 kW (5 times more power dense! FIVE TIMES for the same weight!!!) for a Diginow Supercharger and still waterproof and can enable charging and do everything the stock Calex can)

But I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else. If you're thinking about it (electrical engineer hackers) you know who you are. Otherwise, keep the stock Calex charger.  If it fails and you are in warranty just get another.  It is definitely the weakest component on the Zero by far.  The rest of the bike is rock solid!

But do get the supercharger in the tank area, or if you have a powertank, for your top case, pannier mounts or crash bar mounts (many places to mount waterproof chargers).  You'll never regret getting it one bit once you use it the first time. It's totally freaking amazing the power out of such a small package.  I wish I had that in 2014, but it just came available this year! ;)

I'd definitely be willing to get one but the only problem is getting one at the moment only ones selling it are Hollywood electrics Grand Canyon cycles I think the name is no longer is a dealer for them so kinda screwed haha.

What's the reason for not removing the stock one in my case? Once it runs out of warrantee I'd rather not have to pay the ~900 out of pocket to replace the stock one knowing that it's probably going to fail sooner or later..I hit exactly 11,000 miles on my 2016 when I got to the dealership.

I don't have a power tank so I'm literally screwed if the stock charger takes another puke and this time it's not at home. I'm learning from you guys that have been through what I have and have found remedies so keep the info coming. Thanks! Btw dig all the posts on your Instagram.
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What_clutch

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 04:25:23 AM »

There's an unofficial manual section for onboard charger problems. Removing the grounding prong is the suggestion for GFCI trips, but generally the recommendation is to maintain the cord and plug inlet using some contact cleaner:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Problems#Charging

Whether that will save a charger that is already showing some failure signs is nothing I can predict, but it can't hurt to check the inlet for signs of burns, dirt, or corrosion.

I do recommend using contact cleaner to keep the inlet clean. Preventing heating or sparks there probably reduces some causes of charger failures.

Charging failure rates seem to be occasional but seems to happen early in the bike's life, if at all. It looks from your posts that you've had the bike for a year now.

I will definitely do this or buy the adaptor I believe I saw you post a picture of the adaptor in a different thread.
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Shadow

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 09:48:48 PM »

...What's the reason for not removing the stock one in my case? Once it runs out of warrantee I'd rather not have to pay the ~900 out of pocket to replace the stock one knowing that it's probably going to fail sooner or later..I hit exactly 11,000 miles on my 2016 when I got to the dealership.

I don't have a power tank so I'm literally screwed if the stock charger takes another puke and this time it's not at home. I'm learning from you guys that have been through what...
You could remove the stock charger to save some weight. I don't know why that was suggested not to do it's fine and won't damage the bike to remove it. The wiring harness connected to the stock charger provides a way for what is connected to it to trigger "charging mode" on the bike with the key off. Anyways you can charge using the AUX charger connection with or without the stock charger being present.

The DigiNow SCv2 charging modules are taller than the stock charger and do not fit in the belly pan. With a warranty-voiding height-reduction modification to the SCv2 charging modules you'd still have to design a new pan or lower the existing pan.

The easiest on-bike replacement would be the Evtricity or DigiNow charging systems. Evtricity seems to ship quicker and support their product better, if they have some in stock, though you will want to verify that it can function without any stock chargers. The DigiNow system is possibly more weather resistant, but those claims of waterproof from Terry are his opinion. In any normal installation you're going to have fan modules which are definitely not waterproof. A fan failure due to debris damaged my own DigiNow SCv2 system to the point where a replacement fan was not sufficient and repair was not feasible. That module later failed completely and was not covered by DigiNow warranty. I think these water and dust ingress resistance claims are largely based on opinion and estimation not based on any kind of standard testing for the products as they are shipping to customers.

Terry's installation for the belly pan location has not been certified for a rating against water and dust ingress;  we do know that he's sprayed down the bare SCv2 charging modules with water while they are working to remove heat from that system. In that sense the SCv2 charging modules installed on Terry's DigiNow SCv2 system are known to be water resistant, but it should not be left omitted that the warranty from DigiNow is void in that configuration.

Growing tired of the claims that any of these systems are waterproof. They're not certified or tested in the configurations being shipped to customers to be waterproof, and to my knowledge no one has done standard testing against water and/or dust ingress.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Aftermarket Charger Claims
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 11:58:03 PM »

The easiest on-bike replacement would be the Evtricity or DigiNow charging systems. Evtricity seems to ship quicker and support their product better, if they have some in stock, though you will want to verify that it can function without any stock chargers. The DigiNow system is possibly more weather resistant, but those claims of waterproof from Terry are his opinion. In any normal installation you're going to have fan modules which are definitely not waterproof. A fan failure due to debris damaged my own DigiNow SCv2 system to the point where a replacement fan was not sufficient and repair was not feasible. That module later failed completely and was not covered by DigiNow warranty. I think these water and dust ingress resistance claims are largely based on opinion and estimation not based on any kind of standard testing for the products as they are shipping to customers.


It is true that neither DigiNow or EVTricity can afford standardized independent testing of their configurations, but their upstream suppliers can and seem to have done so, and this is not ignorable.

While it's unfortunate (and we don't know all the details) that you lost a unit that way, and true that Terry's expectations and way of operating can't work for most of us, the component that EVTricity ships is not designed for being on a vehicle at all. They're stationary server power supplies for a clean controlled environment, and the vendor datasheets claim nothing about dust, moisture, water, or vibration, so I want to be clear that they are not a comparable option.

Maybe it's worth making an analogy to computer security where one considers the routes to failure and mitigation strategies to minimize the risks. An enclosure to deflect weathering and debris from the fan and 12V circuit wiring does seem in order for DigiNow equipment. This seems mainly addressed by their recommended tank installation, but could be improved.

Other routes include things like dampening vibrations using e.g. DigiNow's bracket fastening. For EVTricity's R48-2000e3, I'd want it fully enclosed in a watertight case while riding, wrapped in a large amount of padding, and then secured independently to avoid cable wear and motion. And even then, the equipment is not rated for the environment and could wear and fail on the primary components rather than secondary 12V circuits.

Basically, you'd have to do a lot of work to eliminate a class of vulnerabilities the R48 has just on its own that the Elcon does not.

Terry's installation for the belly pan location has not been certified for a rating against water and dust ingress;  we do know that he's sprayed down the bare SCv2 charging modules with water while they are working to remove heat from that system. In that sense the SCv2 charging modules installed on Terry's DigiNow SCv2 system are known to be water resistant, but it should not be left omitted that the warranty from DigiNow is void in that configuration.

Yes, and DigiNow's recommended installation path is chosen to mitigate those risk vectors as I've mentioned above.

Growing tired of the claims that any of these systems are waterproof. They're not certified or tested in the configurations being shipped to customers to be waterproof, and to my knowledge no one has done standard testing against water and/or dust ingress.

Yeah, we could do with more careful language about all this; I wish I had the time and funding to develop some robust packaging for these vendors, but in the meantime we'll have to lay out risks honestly so we don't wind up with broken bikes.
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Electric Terry

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2017, 12:49:25 AM »

Right, this is why I didn't recommend anyone install them in the pan.  Brandon has been very clear that any modification to the charger or especially the 12v system will void the warranty, as he can't send back broken units to the manufacturer that have been modified as they won't honor it.  So best to use the chargers as they are designed and if there is an issue from the stock setup he will warranty them.  Shadow I think your issue was dealing with doing something with the fan wires even after Brandon said not to, as he has killed a charger shorting the fan wires in testing himself and the charger ceased to function.  So he was very clear not to touch those.  We all tinker and make mistakes sometimes, but we do this at our own risk.

The Diginow chargers are both case sealed and completely potted inside.  I would gamble they would even work submerged under water.  But of course not recommending anyone try that.

I'm sure additional mounting brackets for other location and factory heatsink and fan options will come eventually, but for now its just recommended to get the superchargers and use them in the tank area or in a top case as is.  I think the best mounting solution is in the tank with a flip up lid like the carbon fiber one Hollywood electric sells, and leave the lid open while charging to let hot air escape out the top to let the chargers stay cooler.

I'm sorry about your charger Shadow, I've blown up plenty of stuff before too, it happens to all of us.  But it isn't a fault of the product if you short something while messing with something you were warned ahead of time of doing and then surprised when it breaks, and upset that it's not covered under warranty.  I mean think about that for a second.  That has to make sense, right?

You had an unfortunate accident with shorting the DC fan wires, and it can reinforce what Brandon already told us: Don't mess with these wires as the charger will break.  Turns out he was right! Not that I ever doubted him though.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 12:51:10 AM by Electric Terry »
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Shadow

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2017, 03:38:05 AM »

I'm sorry about your charger Shadow, I've blown up plenty of stuff before too, it happens to all of us.  But it isn't a fault of the product if you short something while messing with something you were warned ahead of time of doing and then surprised when it breaks, and upset that it's not covered under warranty.  I mean think about that for a second.  That has to make sense, right?
To the best of my knowledge and ability I did not "short something while messing with something". I'd documented with photographs my efforts to verify function of all three SCv2 charging units since there is no known troubleshooting process. Nothing too exciting if you have ever used a digital multimeter before. Based on the photographs and knowledge that I had exposed the 12Vdc supply terminals for measurement, it was said that the warranty could not be honored. I was offered a replacement unit "at cost". I have the failed unit here and if someone would like to perform a failure analysis on it I'll send it over before returning it for a core exchange to DigiNow. Any takers?
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giacomo

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Re: Yet another charger issue? 16 SR
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 06:02:01 AM »

I'm sorry about your charger Shadow, I've blown up plenty of stuff before too, it happens to all of us.  But it isn't a fault of the product if you short something while messing with something you were warned ahead of time of doing and then surprised when it breaks, and upset that it's not covered under warranty.  I mean think about that for a second.  That has to make sense, right?
To the best of my knowledge and ability I did not "short something while messing with something". I'd documented with photographs my efforts to verify function of all three SCv2 charging units since there is no known troubleshooting process. Nothing too exciting if you have ever used a digital multimeter before. Based on the photographs and knowledge that I had exposed the 12Vdc supply terminals for measurement, it was said that the warranty could not be honored. I was offered a replacement unit "at cost". I have the failed unit here and if someone would like to perform a failure analysis on it I'll send it over before returning it for a core exchange to DigiNow. Any takers?
I had my '15 SR charger replaced last week. Great service here in San Diego. The dealer tech asked me if I had a timer  or switch when I connect the bike to the outlet because he saw all the faulty charger had either that, or connected to a gfci outlet. Any other experience with this? I have indeed a timer....

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