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[clay.leihy]

Beg to differ...

Piaggio sell a whole range of MP3  http://www.piaggiousa.com/
BMW sell their 650 cc scoots http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/fascination/worldoverview/urban_mobility/main.html
Suzuki sell their Burgman http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Scooters.aspx
even the Honda Silverwing (but not the updated model) http://powersports.honda.com/2013/silver-wing-abs.aspx

It's just they are not sold in the numbers they are sold in Europe, where there are more scoots (mostly because of business folks using them to bypass traffic).

hmm lets see.. does that conflict with what I just said?

a few eccentric people. There are no common non-moped scooters in most of the United States.

nope.
You can literally go weeks or even years without seeing a single non-moped scooter in the majority of the USA.
Dont get me wrong, I like high power scooters. I even worked at a scooter shop that specialized in modding Vespas ... but they are not anywhere close to common. You'll see more Zeros on the road then Piaggios, BMW scoots and Silverwings combined. Im not sure if they still have it, but my local Honda motorcycle dealership still had a new, never sold 2014 silverwing earlier this year (2017). In 2008 they picked up Kymco and sold a ton of 125 and 150cc scooters as mopeds, until the DMV shut it down. they couldnt support selling the brand on just 50cc ones, even in 2009 when the economy was not doing so well and mopeds were becoming more acceptable for college kids.

There are places in the world different than where you live.

I see a LOT more BMW scooters and Burgmans than I do Zeros here.  In fact, in the year and a half that I've had my Zero, I'm the ONLY one I've actually seen on the road and I commute every day with it.  I've seen one or two in for service when I'm at the shop, but I've never actually seen them on the road.

Yup. I've seen my Zero and one other in Denver. Many more super scooters.
And don't forget, many motorcycle licensed scooters look just like the 49cc's but just have bigger motors. One of my co-workers has what looks like a "moped" scooter but got herself a speeding ticket for doing 85mph.
As far as DUI, in Colorado (and many other states) riding a "moped" requires a driver's license. And a license suspension revokes your privilege to operate any vehicle on the roadway. In the wilds of the Jersey pine barrens many think they can drive their ATVs (to the liquor store) after losing their license. That'll just get you a ticket for operating an illegal, unregistered vehicle ... Without a license.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

[MrDude_1]

Beg to differ...

Piaggio sell a whole range of MP3  http://www.piaggiousa.com/
BMW sell their 650 cc scoots http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/fascination/worldoverview/urban_mobility/main.html
Suzuki sell their Burgman http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Scooters.aspx
even the Honda Silverwing (but not the updated model) http://powersports.honda.com/2013/silver-wing-abs.aspx

It's just they are not sold in the numbers they are sold in Europe, where there are more scoots (mostly because of business folks using them to bypass traffic).

hmm lets see.. does that conflict with what I just said?

a few eccentric people. There are no common non-moped scooters in most of the United States.

nope.
You can literally go weeks or even years without seeing a single non-moped scooter in the majority of the USA.
Dont get me wrong, I like high power scooters. I even worked at a scooter shop that specialized in modding Vespas ... but they are not anywhere close to common. You'll see more Zeros on the road then Piaggios, BMW scoots and Silverwings combined. Im not sure if they still have it, but my local Honda motorcycle dealership still had a new, never sold 2014 silverwing earlier this year (2017). In 2008 they picked up Kymco and sold a ton of 125 and 150cc scooters as mopeds, until the DMV shut it down. they couldnt support selling the brand on just 50cc ones, even in 2009 when the economy was not doing so well and mopeds were becoming more acceptable for college kids.

There are places in the world different than where you live.

I see a LOT more BMW scooters and Burgmans than I do Zeros here.  In fact, in the year and a half that I've had my Zero, I'm the ONLY one I've actually seen on the road and I commute every day with it.  I've seen one or two in for service when I'm at the shop, but I've never actually seen them on the road.

Yup. I've seen my Zero and one other in Denver. Many more super scooters.
And don't forget, many motorcycle licensed scooters look just like the 49cc's but just have bigger motors. One of my co-workers has what looks like a "moped" scooter but got herself a speeding ticket for doing 85mph.
As far as DUI, in Colorado (and many other states) riding a "moped" requires a driver's license. And a license suspension revokes your privilege to operate any vehicle on the roadway. In the wilds of the Jersey pine barrens many think they can drive their ATVs (to the liquor store) after losing their license. That'll just get you a ticket for operating an illegal, unregistered vehicle ... Without a license.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

But Colorado is cool in that you CAN register the ATV (with a couple mods) as a highway vehicle.

[Richard230]

Today I visited my BMW dealer and saw my first C-Evolution scooter in person.  I was very impressed by its design and excellent manufacturing quality.  The scooter on the showroom floor was already sold.  BMW has got to be loosing their shirt on every one they sell at a price of only $14,000 USD.  Photo attached.  Note the Energica motorcycles in the background of the picture. While I was there, a fellow took a test ride of an Eva.  While he looked like he had fun riding the bike, I didn't see him spend any time at the salesman's desk. 

[Richard230]

Here is another review of the C-Evolution:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=93&v=1J28A9N8pnE

[Richard230]

Motorcycle Consumer News has published a four-page review of the C-Evolution in their January 2018 issue. A few things in the article caught my eye: 

The motor is said to produce 48 hp and 53 lb.-ft. of torque, "from 0 rpm to 4500 rpm", however the power curve chart included with the article shows the power being produced is 44 kW at 7,500 rpm and torque as 63 Nm at 6,000 rpm.  I get the feeling that may be the chart for BMW's C650GT IC scooter.

The article states that its regen can increase the scooter's range by 10 to 20%.  Frankly, I find that statement hard to believe.  In my personal experience, after owing 5 electric motorcycles, it is more like 1 to 3%.

Acceleration to 30 is said to take 3 seconds and to 60 mph, 7 seconds. No quarter-mile performance was provided. Top speed is electronically limited to 80 mph.

The bike is powered by 36 Samsung SDI li-ion cells (133V nominal), with a total capacity of 12.5 kWh (nominal?).  Advertised range is 99 mph in Eco Pro mode.  The reviewer said that they were able to obtain 9.8 miles per kWh while riding "assertively" in the city and 11 miles per kWh while "babying" it in city riding. "In a worst-case test, with the throttle pinned for 46 miles, it still returned an astonishing 4.9 miles per kWh, and that was in cool weather."  (That calculates to 61 miles for the 12.5 kWh battery capacity.)  The scooter will travel about 3.7 miles after its display shows that the pack is depleted.

In addition to ABS, the scooter has traction control to prevent rear wheel spinning under slippery conditions.

The scooter has an on-board level 2 charger that connects to a J1772 charging receptacle and also a separate 120VAC charger, so that the bike can be charged from a home wall outlet.  Charging times are 9 hours, 20 minutes at 120V, or 4 hours, 30 minutes using the 3kW, 240V system.

The C-Evolution's 12 volt systems are powered by a separate 12V, 8Ah battery, rather than a DC-DC converter.

Suspension travel is 4.7 inches front and 4.5 inches in the rear.

What really got my attention is the weight of the scooter.  606 pounds, fully charged.    That is 31 pounds more than BMW's IC scooters.

Seat height is 30.1 inches with the standard seat and 30.9 inches if you are sitting on the "comfort" seat.

There is a storage area under the passenger seat that can hold one full face helmet - once you remove the 12V charger stored there.

An accessory "touring" windshield is available - no doubt at a substantial extra cost, based upon my BMW buying experience. 

The color TFT instrument display is 7.25 inches wide by 3 inches high. (Isn't it about time that Zero changed their display to a color TFT, also?)

An interesting chart was included in the article comparing the cost of riding a C-Evolution and a BMW C650GT for 12,000 miles, based upon $130 per hour labor cost (which is what I pay at my BMW dealer).  Here is the breakdown:

C-Evolution: 7.7 MPkWh, at $0.09 per kWh (about half of what I pay) = $140.26.  Maintenance costs = $455, for a total of $490.26.

C650GT: 51.3 MPG at $2.85 (I pay 50 cents more per gallon) = $666.66. Maintenance costs = $1,716.00 (ouch!), for a total of $1,986.66.

[gyrocyclist]

   This thing pulls like a FREIGHT TRAIN right on the get-go. 

Not sure what that's meant to imply. Freight trains have tons of power, but very slow acceleration.
(BTW, I know that "tons" isn't actually a measure of power

[Richard230]

One thing that I forgot to praise the C-Evolution for is its parking brake that activates the brakes when the side stand is deployed.   

[JaimeC]

One thing that I forgot to praise the C-Evolution for is its parking brake that activates the brakes when the side stand is deployed.   

They have that on the ICE scooters too.  I mentioned many times on this forum that I WISH Zero had adopted that same trick.  It's great knowing that once I put down the sidestand on my C650GT, it isn't going ANYWHERE.

[Richard230]

I stopped by my BMW dealer today and was told that they sold their first C-Evolution and their first Energica Eva, both bikes were shipped to buyers in Texas - of all places.    Apparently, Texans appreciate expensive electric motorcycles and scooters more than we do in the SF Bay Area.   

[Fran K]

If you like how it is made videos this one came up on youtube for me yesterday.

[Richard230]

Not quite the way they do it at Zero.   

[Richard230]

The C-Evolutions keep on coming to my local BMW dealer.  But I was told that most sales are not local and they felt that was kind of strange, considering that they are located in the heart of Silicon Valley.  Anyway, they have a demonstrator available if anyone wants to go for a test ride. 

[Richard230]

The C-Evolution is not exactly jumping out of BMW showrooms, at least not in sunny and techy California.  So far my dealer has only sold one and that was to a customer in Texas.  I think BMW is really doing the best that they can to sell the scooter, with the very low price (for what you get in the way of thorough engineering and well-designed parts and assembly), but apparently large expensive scooters are just not much of a market thing in the U.S.  They should have given electric motorcycles a try instead, like Energica.  I think that would have been a better plan, at least here.   

[ultratoad]

Agreed....  BMW makes very highly engineered motorcycles that are pretty much bomb proof....  Electric motorcycles are still a fairly difficult sale in the US of A....  They are relatively fragile, take to long to fuel and don't go the distance....  AND if you ask the average American cyclist about scooters, they will say they are for sissies !!!!  Yep....  Beemer should have pulled out the stops and gone for a full bozo motorcycle....  The scooter may do alright in Europe, but it's just not the American way....  Yet !!!!

[KrazyEd]

The article states that its regen can increase the scooter's range by 10 to 20%.  Frankly, I find that statement hard to believe.  In my personal experience, after owing 5 electric motorcycles, it is more like 1 to 3%.

Not sure about my Zeros or my Volt, but Three years with a Ford Focus Electric returned an AVERAGE of 20% added by regeneration. I hypermile at every opportunity so that may be the difference.
Many seem to put regen to maximum at all times. I keep it as mild as feasible other than maximum for braking. This way you don't have to accelerate again after letting off of the throttle when slowing down