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[moshe_levy]

Perhaps. I'm always available should they come a knockin'! 

-MKL, (MBA Marketing, New York University, 2005)

[ESokoloff]

Ok,
I'm moving the discussion over in Harley LiveWire that has ensued over a disclaimer I wrote regarding my doubts about any manufacture releasing new EV's until Solid State  batteries come out in the next few years with the exception of BMW.

Here's a link to the discussion....

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6465.msg62677#new

I still maintain that BMW is still in the process of introducing this product.

Yes it's been brought to market here in California but it's not a forgone conclusion that it will be fully introduced here in the US.

"The C evolution will initially be introduced in the U.S. as part of a pilot program and will only be available in California at the time of launch. As interest in the C evolution builds, BMW Motorrad USA will expand this product offering to BMW Motorrad retailers in other states."

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2017/07/31/manufacturers/bmw/2017-bmw-c-evolution-electric-scooter-launching-california/


So it sounds to me that BMW is taking a wait & see approach to this vehical & thus this process that I stated is yet over. 




P.S.
Moderators, isn't it time BMW had its own sub-forum?




 

[JaimeC]

It is a shipping product in Europe.  They are judging the market here in the States.  That is a PRODUCTION VEHICLE by any definition of the word.

Peugeot automobiles are only available in Europe and have been in production for DECADES but by your definition, they aren't real production vehicles because they aren't sold in the States.  The Livewire, by contrast, is a prototype that isn't available ANYWHERE for sale.  THAT is the difference.

[ESokoloff]

Never stated it's not in production (the BMW).
It's the LiveWire that will not be produced until next generation battery allows it to make sense (lower price, faster charge, & greater range).


"I have to think it will not be produced until solid state battery's come out which is still a few years out.
These battery's will significantly increase range, lower charge time, & likely cost less then present battery's.

With this new technology so close to being available, I dought you will see many if any mainstream manufacturers release new EV products.
That said, BMW is in the process of releasing an electric scooter.   

Good things come to those that wait......."



I think the mistake I made (in my original statement) was in an attempt to fortify this.....

"With this new technology so close to being available, I dought you will see many if any mainstream manufacturers release new EV products."

I didn't want someone to respond that I was wrong because BMW is bringing a EV to the US market. 
Where I was in err was in labeling the C-Evolution as new. 
The fact that it is an older release reinforces my statement regarding no manufacture is likely to release any new EV until the next gen battery is available (including Harley Davidson). 

[JaimeC]

I find it a little odd that this forum has a section for the Harley Livewire, which was and still is a pure concept/prototype vehicle, and yet nothing for the BMW C-Evolution which is an actual production vehicle that has been available in Europe for a few years already and is now entering the United States.  Based on posts I've read, not everyone here lives in the USA either... so what gives??

[Doug S]

... so what gives??

My guess, two things.

1) It ain't a Harley.
2) It's a scooter.

Biased and/or prejudiced? Yeah, prolly.

[MrDude_1]

I find it a little odd that this forum has a section for the Harley Livewire, which was and still is a pure concept/prototype vehicle, and yet nothing for the BMW C-Evolution which is an actual production vehicle that has been available in Europe for a few years already and is now entering the United States.  Based on posts I've read, not everyone here lives in the USA either... so what gives??

There was a time not long ago that the Harley was being hyped like it was a real thing, ready to go... thats when they made the sub forum.
There are millions of electric scooters and tens of millions of electric bicycles... as most are not "motorcycles" they are not mentioned often on the "electric motorcycle" forum.  You can always ask for an exception of course. I dont think theres any hate, just not everyone is aware of the scooter options.

[Mike Werner]

It has always pissed me off the way "motorcycles" are seen different from scooters. Technically and legally, they are all motorcycles. That's like saying a cruiser is not a motorcycle. Or a enduro is not one.

I'd say almost anywhere in the world, you use the same license to ride either. Riding a scooter puts you in the same risks as other bikes.

But still, many see scooters are not-motorcycles and beneath them.

Pity

[clay.leihy]

It has always pissed me off the way "motorcycles" are seen different from scooters. Technically and legally, they are all motorcycles. That's like saying a cruiser is not a motorcycle. Or a enduro is not one.

I'd say almost anywhere in the world, you use the same license to ride either. Riding a scooter puts you in the same risks as other bikes.

But still, many see scooters are not-motorcycles and beneath them.

Pity

True. I rode a Silverwing for a while. Hours in the saddle, 100mph+ cruising on the interstate. All the motorcycle cred you could get.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

[MrDude_1]

It has always pissed me off the way "motorcycles" are seen different from scooters. Technically and legally, they are all motorcycles. That's like saying a cruiser is not a motorcycle. Or a enduro is not one.

I'd say almost anywhere in the world, you use the same license to ride either. Riding a scooter puts you in the same risks as other bikes.

But still, many see scooters are not-motorcycles and beneath them.

Pity

Actually it depends on the scooter and where you live.
Here, Technically and legally, most scooters are NOT motorcycles. They fall under mopeds, require no license or insurance. They're known as DUI rides because they're your only choice once you lose your license.
They are all under 50cc, no gears, 4hp or so.. and looked down upon.

On the otherhand, elsewhere in the world you have silverwings and other mega-scooters more common... they're comfortable motorcycles that you happen to step though. The step through part defines them as a scooter, but legally and objectively they are motorcycles.

I have no problem with mopeds or scooters.. I just draw the distinction at being step through or not... and I kind of ignore the low power ones as they are very limited as transportation when your country is connected via interstate travel. US highways have a horsepower minimum.

[Mike Werner]

Sure, mopeds are mopeds and don't require a special license. I don't think we're talking about those. Silverwings, MP3, any scooter over 125cc usually requires a motorcycle license, and IMHO should be seen as a motorcycle.

We're now getting to the point that some scoots and more like "normal" bikes. Take the latest Honda Adv-Scoot.... it's a traditional scoot (ie no gear changing, etc) but looks a lot like a bike.

[MrDude_1]

Sure, mopeds are mopeds and don't require a special license. I don't think we're talking about those. Silverwings, MP3, any scooter over 125cc usually requires a motorcycle license, and IMHO should be seen as a motorcycle.

We're now getting to the point that some scoots and more like "normal" bikes. Take the latest Honda Adv-Scoot.... it's a traditional scoot (ie no gear changing, etc) but looks a lot like a bike.

But they dont sell those here.
The very few non-moped-scooters they sell here are either for people illegally running them as mopeds, or a few eccentric people. There are no common non-moped scooters in most of the United States.

[Mike Werner]

Beg to differ...

Piaggio sell a whole range of MP3  http://www.piaggiousa.com/
BMW sell their 650 cc scoots http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/fascination/worldoverview/urban_mobility/main.html
Suzuki sell their Burgman http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Scooters.aspx
even the Honda Silverwing (but not the updated model) http://powersports.honda.com/2013/silver-wing-abs.aspx

It's just they are not sold in the numbers they are sold in Europe, where there are more scoots (mostly because of business folks using them to bypass traffic).

[MrDude_1]

Beg to differ...

Piaggio sell a whole range of MP3  http://www.piaggiousa.com/
BMW sell their 650 cc scoots http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/fascination/worldoverview/urban_mobility/main.html
Suzuki sell their Burgman http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Scooters.aspx
even the Honda Silverwing (but not the updated model) http://powersports.honda.com/2013/silver-wing-abs.aspx

It's just they are not sold in the numbers they are sold in Europe, where there are more scoots (mostly because of business folks using them to bypass traffic).

hmm lets see.. does that conflict with what I just said?

a few eccentric people. There are no common non-moped scooters in most of the United States.

nope.
You can literally go weeks or even years without seeing a single non-moped scooter in the majority of the USA.
Dont get me wrong, I like high power scooters. I even worked at a scooter shop that specialized in modding Vespas ... but they are not anywhere close to common. You'll see more Zeros on the road then Piaggios, BMW scoots and Silverwings combined. Im not sure if they still have it, but my local Honda motorcycle dealership still had a new, never sold 2014 silverwing earlier this year (2017). In 2008 they picked up Kymco and sold a ton of 125 and 150cc scooters as mopeds, until the DMV shut it down. they couldnt support selling the brand on just 50cc ones, even in 2009 when the economy was not doing so well and mopeds were becoming more acceptable for college kids.

There are places in the world different than where you live.

[JaimeC]

Beg to differ...

Piaggio sell a whole range of MP3  http://www.piaggiousa.com/
BMW sell their 650 cc scoots http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/fascination/worldoverview/urban_mobility/main.html
Suzuki sell their Burgman http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Scooters.aspx
even the Honda Silverwing (but not the updated model) http://powersports.honda.com/2013/silver-wing-abs.aspx

It's just they are not sold in the numbers they are sold in Europe, where there are more scoots (mostly because of business folks using them to bypass traffic).

hmm lets see.. does that conflict with what I just said?

a few eccentric people. There are no common non-moped scooters in most of the United States.

nope.
You can literally go weeks or even years without seeing a single non-moped scooter in the majority of the USA.
Dont get me wrong, I like high power scooters. I even worked at a scooter shop that specialized in modding Vespas ... but they are not anywhere close to common. You'll see more Zeros on the road then Piaggios, BMW scoots and Silverwings combined. Im not sure if they still have it, but my local Honda motorcycle dealership still had a new, never sold 2014 silverwing earlier this year (2017). In 2008 they picked up Kymco and sold a ton of 125 and 150cc scooters as mopeds, until the DMV shut it down. they couldnt support selling the brand on just 50cc ones, even in 2009 when the economy was not doing so well and mopeds were becoming more acceptable for college kids.

There are places in the world different than where you live.

I see a LOT more BMW scooters and Burgmans than I do Zeros here.  In fact, in the year and a half that I've had my Zero, I'm the ONLY one I've actually seen on the road and I commute every day with it.  I've seen one or two in for service when I'm at the shop, but I've never actually seen them on the road.