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Author Topic: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations  (Read 18904 times)

Pat Cat

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2017, 05:32:12 PM »

Charging/Balancing Question:
When I’m charging my bike and it gets to 100%, the balancing lights show the batteries are not in balance. Do you keep the bike plugged in until it shows fully balanced?
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laurentzeroS2016

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2017, 10:58:11 PM »

Hello to everybody it is rare that I write on this forum but I wanted to say to all those who have a doubt about the life of our batteries, know and according to my calculations that our battery pack which are in 116/28 cells = 3.14 volts, actually 90% of the pack and not 100% (to have the 100% it would be necessary for the pack to be charged to 117.6 volts to get our 100%
So I think to charge 100% do not use the batteries.
Now me rolling in zero S 2016 (13kw) I charge and discharge only 30 to 70%! 40% per day are enough for me this extreme case will allow me to according to a friend engineer to make more than 40,000 loads!
laurent
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togo

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2017, 11:12:47 PM »

Charging/Balancing Question:
When I’m charging my bike and it gets to 100%, the balancing lights show the batteries are not in balance. Do you keep the bike plugged in until it shows fully balanced?

Balancing lights? You should write that up where those are in http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Cell_Balancing

I've seen balance in the Zero App, Riding Screen Preview area, when charging, I seem to get 3-12mv which is .003 to .012 V.  You can also see more detail, if you want to get technical through the diginow bluetooth reaper, sold at hollywood electrics, and your favorite android device.  I think it's good to charge till good balance occasionally, and in particular after you run the battery till low voltage (it loses thrust).

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gyrocyclist

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2017, 03:55:31 AM »

I will be receiving a firmware update to my 2016 DSR this coming Wednesday. So, what I encourage everyone to do as I will do, is to document for themselves any differences in firmware. Just before hand-off to the dealership for firmware upgrade, use the Zero App (whichever version works best for you) to send yourself the MBB log and BMS logs (BMS0 is system battery, BMS1 is PowerTank if you have one). Hand off the bike to the dealer, get the firmware upgrade done, and then after the firmware upgrade before you do anything use the preferred version of your app AND then also the latest version of the app to get the MBB and BMS logs.

You will be able to use the Online Parser from the community-made Zero Log Tools, and verify that at least the MBB firmware version has changed.

Unf. I'm still unable to d/l the logs (iphone 6s). With the most recent update of the app I'm now able to get the "driving" display working, but logs have same problems as before: they download, get to 100%, then the spinner spins forever.
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eranby

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2017, 05:32:04 PM »

Hi,
just called our local dealer in Israel regarding the free of charge software update.
I was surprised to found he likes to charge 110 USD for this service...I have mentioned
Zero statement about this upgrade and he replied me that free of charge is limited to US
only and that they don't like to work for free (!!).
Any toughts about my optional next steps?

regards,
Eran

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Erasmo

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2017, 06:03:07 PM »

I'm guessing that Israel falls under the European HQ? Give them a call, they surely will be interested in dealers that don't uphold policies.
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Shadow

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2017, 10:09:30 AM »

...they don't like to work for free (!!)...

Firmware upgrade and motor commissioning is warranty work. The dealership does the work and sends a bill to Zero Motorcycles to get paid for the work.

Firmware upgrade (MBB, BMS0, and if you have powertank BMS1) consists of removing the Seat (2 bolts), attaching a programming cable to the ODB port, and then connecting to a computer. Click a few buttons on the computer software and wait some time maybe 10-20 minutes.

Motor commissioning needs drive tire to be lifted off the ground. The technician activates the software, holds the throttle enough while watching the computer screen to try and get some drawn dots to end up in a bounding box (not too fast and not too slow), and then the process is completed.

The whole process takes 30 minutes, unless your dealership is totally daft about electronics.
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madcow

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2017, 04:37:41 PM »

Which advantage does motorcommissioning have and when is it necessary?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 11:58:13 AM by madcow »
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Shadow

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2017, 11:49:12 PM »

Which advantage dies motorcommissioning have and when is it necessary?
Each motor is slightly different when manufactured, and so there is a value of offset calibrated for the controller to account for this. The most (if any at all) drift is expected to happen say within the first 1000mi of use. After that it is a good idea to verify with regular service checkup as the owner's manual says, but the value of offset should be similar or exactly the same for the rest of the useful life of the motor.

When you take your Zero to have its motor and controller commissioned at an authorized dealership, there is no guidance to give you any sort of proof or information that the work is performed.

When I had my bike for the first 2000mi or so there were some ride-through faults in the Sevcon which I experienced as occasional sudden acceleration and/or rear wheel locking. At the time I was a new rider and thought it would be normal if a rock got kicked up through the rear sprocket or perhaps the throttle needed some more usage for the components to settle in - I really did not know this was a concern. I asked the dealership I purchased the bike from and they were hard-line "The bike does not require maintenance ever" at the time and had no idea what firmware or motor commissioning was. I have not had any of these faults in the 9,000mi+ since insisting that the motor and controller be re-commissioned, and firmware updated. I can not be sure that there is any cause and effect there to do with commissioning, or if there was any change made and even if any commissioning procedure was performed since there is no paper trail for me. I just have to trust that the dealership worked on the bike, which is kind of dubious to me because of their initial attitude towards regular maintenance on Zero Motorcycles vehicles.

Recently I was able to watch the process of commissioning and it is dead simple, also that the value did not change noticeably so I am more sure that it is correct now for the bike. There is a value kept on record of when the bike was manufactured, however, I don't know what that is and it's not readily available to look up. The technician would have to be mindful and go out of their way to know to take a note of the old value and the new value, which is not something they are being advised to do. There's no access for us bike owners to know this value without specialized hardware and legal contracts with Zero Motorcycles and the vendor software.

I've made a suggestion to folks at the factory that I would like to see some guidance for dealerships to show a printout or something describing the old value and the new value as proof that the work was performed, if the component is still drifting or if it is settled. Moto dealerships tend to view software as dark magic sorcery and might not perform it correctly or at all, yet tell the customer the work was performed and bill the factory for the warranty hours. You can verify at least the version of your MBB firmware by using the app to pull MBB logs and then view the version on the log parser. I did this all from my phone at the dealership before and after the firmware upgrade process to verify that the work was done. Unfortunately there's no way (yet?) to verify the commissioning offset value.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2017, 01:07:49 AM »

That is very interesting, Shadow. It sounds like a lot of valuable quality data is being lost in the commissioning process.
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Burton

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2017, 07:05:54 PM »

There is a value kept on record of when the bike was manufactured, however, I don't know what that is and it's not readily available to look up. The technician would have to be mindful and go out of their way to know to take a note of the old value and the new value, which is not something they are being advised to do. There's no access for us bike owners to know this value without specialized hardware and legal contracts with Zero Motorcycles and the vendor software.

You don't need legal contracts with zero or the vendors software ... you do need the ixxat to usb and sevcon software (DVT) appropriate for your MY / Controller . And it isn't exactly cheap or user friendly less you are use to software like this (thankfully I am).

That said when using said software you always run a backup before doing anything. That backup has the previous offset stored inside it as it is a front facing variable visible in the GUI of said software when you go to set it. If the tech's are using any application which shows this to them, if not the DVT software itself, they could simply take a screen capture of the value before and after to provide to the customer ... in fact I would request it be done as part of my service.

You are correct though I don't think this value finds its way back to the MBB where it can be seen as a "setting" since the variable isn't required for the logic of the MBB.
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tico

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2017, 09:04:26 PM »

Hi guys --

So I dropped off my 2014 S at a local dealer this past Friday to get the firmware updated, and I heard back yesterday evening (Tuesday) that when they hooked up the computer to it, that the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do.  No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?

-t
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2017, 11:24:24 PM »

So I dropped off my 2014 S at a local dealer this past Friday to get the firmware updated, and I heard back yesterday evening (Tuesday) that when they hooked up the computer to it, that the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do.  No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?

Maybe the last time they applied a firmware update, they chose wrong image or set it wrong? Or maybe they put in a new MBB board somehow.
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Shadow

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2017, 12:23:08 AM »

...the bike identified itself as a 2017, and could not update the firmware. They're gonna call Zero and see what to do.  No other details so far, but has anyone else heard of this happening?
Mine MBB updated okay at the dealership but the BMS failed to update. I heard something like (the employee at Zero) "made a patch for the BMS so it would update". That doesn't make a lot of sense to me but it did update.

Supporting all these different configurations of model year, model, hardware revisions, and firmware revisions, has got to be a galactic pain in the ass.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Email From Zero: Updated Firmware and Charging Recommendations
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2017, 07:20:23 PM »

Supporting all these different configurations of model year, model, hardware revisions, and firmware revisions, has got to be a galactic pain in the ass.

If done correctly it's not as hard as you would think. The question is, are they doing it correctly, or are they making that galactic pain in the ass for themselves, and if so, can they correct it?
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