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[gyrocyclist]

This thread has convinced me to hang onto my remaining ICE  (2004, 500cc Aprilia scooter; awesome carrying capacity). The Zero is *WAY* more  fast/fun, but it sounds like I should plan on the Zero being OOC within the next few months   Hoping that's not the case.  Hoping the Zero gang are sitting up and taking notice of this thread.

I've also had a bad experience with customer service. Can't say for certain if it's my local dealer or Zero -- I have a frayed housing cable near the rear foot brake. When I took it in for the 600M service my dealer said they'd contact Zero and order a replacement. Nothing heard since. This afternoon I dropped off the bike for 4K service and asked about it again. Will wait to see what happens. This is sort of a minor issue (bike runs fine) but when I'm paying top dollar for a bike -- I want a top dollar bike. Since the shop's been in business for 40 years, I tend to think they know what they're doing/did what they say they did. But I could be wrong.

[nevetsyad]

From a Facebook poll I set up weeks ago, it seems that about 10% of all Zeros are shop queens, like mine. So, there is a good chance you get a good one. But my god, if you get that 1 in 10, hope you have a backup bike. My commute in a car vs bike is over 1 hour longer per day (no HOV access), and parking costs $18 more in a car (I've secured free motorcycle parking). When I'm without for 1 month plus per visit to the shop, it HURTS.

I'm going to upgrade my bike this year, but I'm going to hold out for a competitor to release something. There's several coming this year, hopefully. If I have to, I'll break the bank and go with an Ego. The warranty expires in a few months and I'm NOT paying to keep this thing going. Some poor dealer is going to get it traded in, and they're going to hate Zero then.

Two more sales lost, good job Zero customer support!

[Shadow]

Product Adoption Curve: Innovators, Early Adopters, Early Majority, Late Majority, Laggards.

Zero Motorcycles service through motorcycle dealerships feels to me (in my experience with four dealerships) like mostly Innovators level. If we're lucky there is some place like Hollywood Electrics where the dealership treats us like Early Adopters.

I cannot pretend to be the Early Majority. That's not really where I'd say we are with this transportation. Paying a large amount of money for an imported Italian designed competitor's product does not make the Early Majority happen any earlier than suffering the failures of the global motorcycle dealership model.

[MostlyBonkers]

It sounds like you're blaming the dealers Shadow? You may have been unlucky. My experience with dealers has been good here in the UK. I know I made the point about dealers having contracts for warranty work. That might help explain some dealers' behavior when it comes to service.  However, my dealers have been happy to honour their service agreements. Actually, in Streetbike's case they went above and beyond. They picked my bike up from my home on two occasions. I'm approximately 120 miles from them.  I estimate my bike has done well over 500 miles in the back of their van. It was necessary because at the time they were the only dealership in the UK. They chose to sell a bike to a long distance customer and backed it up by honouring that commitment.  Daytona Motorcycles are only about 20 miles away, so as soon as they started up with Zero, I went to them. I've had one of their courtesy bikes for almost six weeks now.  They are also a good bunch and are committed to getting my bike back on the road as soon as possible.

So in my experience at least, there is no correlation between customers being innovators and experiencing bad dealership service. Most of Zero's dealers are well established. They've been selling traditional bikes from big manufacturers for years or decades. They know how to provide good customer service. They also know what they can expect from manufacturers.  They can get spares from Japan in three weeks if necessary. Most of the time it isn't necessary because there is a distribution centre in Europe. The parts arrive next day. Sometimes they'll take two or three days. In very rare cases they'll take three weeks. If the matter was urgent, I'm sure that could be expedited.

I can understand some dealerships feeling less than comfortable working with new technology. However, my two dealers have both sent their technicians for training at the European HQ.  If a technician needs some expert help, it's easy to hook up with Zero's engineers via Skype on a smartphone. That way problems can be worked through together. The local techie gains some valuable experience and will have a better chance of taking care of the issue next time.

All fingers point to Zero, at least from a UK perspective. Zero aren't supplying parts in a timely manner.

I think there's no excuse for poor customer service. It should be a priority for any business, especially one that is selling an innovative product into a niche market. Zero is relying on good word of mouth to grow its business. All it seems to be doing is generating negativity. That from enthusiasts that were willing to pay a premium for a product in its early stages of development. We love our Zeros and yet we're turned against them by the very company that makes them. That's quite an achievement!

[nevetsyad]

Zero is relying on police and government sales it seems like. This last year they made a large push for expanding consumer sales. There was 1 dealer an hour away from me on the East Coast, and now there's 5. None of them have any experience with repairs however, they all just wanted to sell me a new Zero. The dealers can't be blamed, it's new to them, and there's no money in warranty work. Zero should be leaning on them to give better support, if Zero themselves won't support customers anymore. If you aren't in CA, be ready to be the guinea pig, and for your bike to sit for over a month every visit.

I said I would go with the Ego if nothing else came out. I'm hoping for a Honda or Suzuki or something that can be sold from literally every dealer. They also can order in bulk and have parts at the ready in each region, not ship out from CA, at random intervals. If you spend 18 grand on a top of the line bike from a manufacture, it shouldn't spend 2-3 months every year in the shop waiting on parts or support to assist the dealer! Not to mention, why have cell phone log collection, if you're just going to ignore it, not take user calls, and tell them to take the bike two hours to the nearest dealer? (Dealer I bought from dropped Zero after they got mad manufacture support, I had none within range for a while) Zero kept telling me to take my bike to a dealer, and I'm like, it's 6 months old, I don't have a trailer to haul it to one. Treat your dealers well, treat your customers well.

I know that if I get a dud from Zero again, I'm screwed. At least with an Ego, if forced that way, there's the chance that they take better care of me. They have an East Coast HQ now, and at that price point, they'd better come out and fix it in my garage if I have problems. Lightning's cheaper offering could be out soon, I'm fairly hopeful that that will be a good one, but it could have Zero problems, being a smaller manufacture.

Also pissed that I've bought two third party chargers and held off on using them much - I didn't want to risk voiding my warranty. Only a few additional grand wasted. I keep thinking my bike is going to be healthy and I can start making longer trips. Never happened. Maybe when the warranty is expired this summer, I'll throw caution and my life into the wind and take it out on an adventure. Will be some great PR when I post all of my breakdowns and issues during a long trip on one.

[Mike Werner]

Something that often works: send a direct email to their CEO (SAM PASCHE). I don't have his address but try combinations like sam.pasche@zeromotorcycles.com or spasche@ etc.

It worked for me with the previous CEO (it did help that I was a moto journo), but others sent emails to the CEO and it worked.

Often these guys don't know how bad things get...

[hubert]

E-Motorcycles are certainly still in the "innovators" area. Whereas electric cars have already jumped into the "early adopters" category, at least in some countries/states.

Regarding the dealers, there is one around 90km from my home, I contacted them to ask about software version of the MBB, since mine seems not to have the latest one. The only reply I got a few weeks later was "better ask the question directly to Zero Motorcycles". Hope I will not have any incident in the next years. Just replacing a tire can be done at any shop in the neighbourhood.

[Shadow]

It sounds like you're blaming the dealers Shadow? You may have been unlucky. My experience with dealers has been good here in the UK...

Rather trying to say that relying on the traditional moto dealership model to sell and service Zero Motorcycles vehicles is what leads to vehicle owner dissatisfaction. I agree as pointed out that this is in part due to Zero Motorcycles not actually leveraging that model to the full extent that it could be.

My own experiences have been positive inter-personally with dealerships. I'm not seeing any rude employees at dealerships representing Zero Motorcycles, although perhaps a lot of sales people who are a bit daft about technology. Pleasant as they may be, at the end of the interaction "Do I have a tracking number for that parts shipment?" and "Is the bike repaired (under warranty) and I can get the keys and be finished with this transaction?" are the only topics I am interested in.

So far the Zero-authorized dealerships within 1-day's range of my 2016 Zero DSR have failed that test repeatedly. Symptoms range from month long delays due to having more profitable work, all qualified service employees quit to work for Harley Davidson (more profitable) shops, to not bothering to check which person's bike they were physically working on with a service order for "a Zero bike" (tires put on wrong bikes, my bike about to be dismantled for a problem it doesn't have). "Does your bike usually make a loud noise?"

If I could, I would never, ever, ever in my lifetime, set foot in a moto dealership. That said I don't know the answer to make this better. I think there's an opportunity in the market soon for EV-only vehicle service shops (NOT motorcycle specific).

[nevetsyad]

E-Motorcycles are certainly still in the "innovators" area. Whereas electric cars have already jumped into the "early adopters" category, at least in some countries/states.

Regarding the dealers, there is one around 90km from my home, I contacted them to ask about software version of the MBB, since mine seems not to have the latest one. The only reply I got a few weeks later was "better ask the question directly to Zero Motorcycles". Hope I will not have any incident in the next years. Just replacing a tire can be done at any shop in the neighbourhood.

Yeah, basic mechanical stuff, you're pretty safe on. But my god, the guy trying to update me on my bike's status was trying to figure out what uploading logs to Zero meant.

sam.pasche@zeromotorcycles.com isn't a valid E-mail address. Just tried. I'm sure they made it something hard to guess. I tried contacting him via Linkedin, no reply. I post about my experience on Zero's social media posts, you'd think someone would write me, at least tell me I was denied my refund. I gave them two weeks without asking, then started sending polite E-mails weekly asking for updates.

[nevetsyad]

It sounds like you're blaming the dealers Shadow? You may have been unlucky. My experience with dealers has been good here in the UK...

Rather trying to say that relying on the traditional moto dealership model to sell and service Zero Motorcycles vehicles is what leads to vehicle owner dissatisfaction. I agree as pointed out that this is in part due to Zero Motorcycles not actually leveraging that model to the full extent that it could be.

My own experiences have been positive inter-personally with dealerships. I'm not seeing any rude employees at dealerships representing Zero Motorcycles, although perhaps a lot of sales people who are a bit daft about technology. Pleasant as they may be, at the end of the interaction "Do I have a tracking number for that parts shipment?" and "Is the bike repaired (under warranty) and I can get the keys and be finished with this transaction?" are the only topics I am interested in.

So far the Zero-authorized dealerships within 1-day's range of my 2016 Zero DSR have failed that test repeatedly. Symptoms range from month long delays due to having more profitable work, all qualified service employees quit to work for Harley Davidson (more profitable) shops, to not bothering to check which person's bike they were physically working on with a service order for "a Zero bike" (tires put on wrong bikes, my bike about to be dismantled for a problem it doesn't have). "Does your bike usually make a loud noise?"

If I could, I would never, ever, ever in my lifetime, set foot in a moto dealership. That said I don't know the answer to make this better. I think there's an opportunity in the market soon for EV-only vehicle service shops (NOT motorcycle specific).

A chain of Hollywood Electrics would be awesome. Start with them just outside of the big cities. Hire only EEs. Get maintenance contracts with Zero's government fleets to cover the costs at first, then venture out into supporting and selling to the public. That would work.

[MostlyBonkers]

Sam@zeromotorcycles.com seems to work.

I've sent him a link to this topic.

[nevetsyad]

And right on cue, my wife's 2016 S lost power while I rode it home today. Display went to 0 MPH, green arrow/circle flashed as I went to the shoulder and rolled to a stop. I'm furious. It's going to join my 2015 SR in the shop this weekend. I've sent logs and an HD video to Zero, and posted it to Facebook to try to warn everyone away from Zeros.

Can't wait to get ignored by Zero for this issue too. Maybe I can scare the dealership away from them by having both off my Zeros in the shop.

[Shadow]

And right on cue, my wife's 2016 S lost power while I rode it home today. Display went to 0 MPH, green arrow/circle flashed as I went to the shoulder and rolled to a stop....

Care to share an MBB log?

[nevetsyad]

Sure, how can I get that to you?

[nevetsyad]

Parced it. Not sure what to make of this part:

 08052     04/13/2017 13:28:31   Riding                     PackTemp: h 25C, l 25C, PackSOC: 60%, Vpack:101.218V, MotAmps:  47, BattAmps:  69, Mods: 10, MotTemp:  48C, CtrlTemp:  33C, AmbTemp:  25C, MotRPM:4733, Odo: 1682km
 08053     04/13/2017 13:28:31   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    635 A (92%), MinCell: 3590mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C
 08054     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 04 01 00, Unknown
 08055     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x52C2, Data: 00 10 00, Unknown
 08056     04/13/2017 13:29:29   Restarting Sevcon to clear cutout fault
 08057     04/13/2017 13:29:29   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod: 107.764V, batt curr: -346A
 08058     04/13/2017 13:29:29   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
 08059     04/13/2017 13:29:29   Sevcon Turned Off
 08060     04/13/2017 13:29:29   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF
 08061     04/13/2017 13:29:29   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Open
 08062     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: C2 52 C3, Unknown
 08063     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 0C 02 00, Unknown
 08064     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x00, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: C2 52 04, Unknown
 08065     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x04, Sevcon Error Code: 0x45C5, Data: 08 07 00, Unknown
 08066     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x2000, Error Reg: 0x06, Sevcon Error Code: 0x54C1, Data: 00 10 02, Unknown
 08067     04/13/2017 13:29:29   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x46, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C3, Data: 0E 06 00, Unknown
 08068     04/13/2017 13:29:30   INFO:  Bmvolts: 52625, Cmvolts: 138062, Amps: 0, RPM: 5518
 08069     04/13/2017 13:29:31   Riding                     PackTemp: h 26C, l 25C, PackSOC: 57%, Vpack:101.183V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 00, MotTemp:  55C, CtrlTemp:  38C, AmbTemp:  26C, MotRPM:5518, Odo: 1684km
 08070     04/13/2017 13:29:32   Sevcon Turned On
 08071     04/13/2017 13:29:32   Sevcon CAN Link Down
 08072     04/13/2017 13:29:32   CAN1 BIT0 error. count=1
 08073     04/13/2017 13:29:32   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x3100, Error Reg: 0x04, Sevcon Error Code: 0x45C5, Data: 08 07 00, Unknown