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[ctrlburn]

Don't forget about us non-California riders...

Cold Temps Storage?

Thanks!

[domingo3]

I assume that we should pull the plug once the dash display shows 100%, which on my 2014S is after the pack is balanced, which it does about 30 hours after recharging to 98%.

My 2016 FXS goes straightaway to 100%, or at least I've never noticed a pause at 98%.  It has always read 100% in the morning when charging overnight.  Should it ever be left on the charger longer for balancing the pack, or does 100% mean that balancing has already taken place?

[Richard230]

I assume that we should pull the plug once the dash display shows 100%, which on my 2014S is after the pack is balanced, which it does about 30 hours after recharging to 98%.

My 2016 FXS goes straightaway to 100%, or at least I've never noticed a pause at 98%.  It has always read 100% in the morning when charging overnight.  Should it ever be left on the charger longer for balancing the pack, or does 100% mean that balancing has already taken place?

No doubt the charging protocol has changed between my 2014S/PT (which has never had its programming updated) and the 2016 models. My guess is that when the dash says 100% then your pack is likely balanced. On my bike when it is balancing, the green light on the dash blinks faster than it does when it is bulk charging. When it is hooked up to a Kill A Watt meter, it shows just under 12 amps when bulk charging and a little more than half of that current when balancing the pack.

[aaronzeromoto]

Long-term Storage
For planned long-term storage (more than 30 days), we recommend draining the power pack to a ~60% state of charge, and leaving the charger unplugged.

Many thanks for the info! Only (slightly snarky) question: is there any way to drain to ~60% aside from going for a ride?
(Fort. I live in the bay area, and can ride year-round)

My slightly snark response, "Riding is always the best way to drain a power pack." 

All kidding aside, there isn't another way that can be done safely by an owner or dealer.  Sorry.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

[aaronzeromoto]

I assume that we should pull the plug once the dash display shows 100%, which on my 2014S is after the pack is balanced, which it does about 30 hours after recharging to 98%.

I leave that up to you and it depends on whether you are storing for the long term. The key change is we are dropping the guideline/requirement that you must or should keep it plugged in all the time. 

With respect to seeing some variation in the SOC report at the top end of the range, I would also make sure you have updated the firmware. Not sure if it would apply in this case, but there are some improvements that were made that might apply here.

[MajorMajor]

My 2016 FXS goes straightaway to 100%, or at least I've never noticed a pause at 98%.  It has always read 100% in the morning when charging overnight.  Should it ever be left on the charger longer for balancing the pack, or does 100% mean that balancing has already taken place?

My FXS 2016 also goes to 100% overnight, however, I recently left it parked for about a week and when I eventually went for a ride it said 97%.
It was still plugged throughout.

[Richard230]

I assume that we should pull the plug once the dash display shows 100%, which on my 2014S is after the pack is balanced, which it does about 30 hours after recharging to 98%.

I leave that up to you and it depends on whether you are storing for the long term. The key change is we are dropping the guideline/requirement that you must or should keep it plugged in all the time. 

With respect to seeing some variation in the SOC report at the top end of the range, I would also make sure you have updated the firmware. Not sure if it would apply in this case, but there are some improvements that were made that might apply here.

Once my bike reaches 100% charge, I always unplug it.  But then I ride it at least once a week - since I live in the SF Bay Area, too.

[NEW2elec]

+1 Richard
 I haven't gone a week without putting at least 10 or more miles on it since I got it, except for the battery recall.  From what I've read from people and my own use, that is what the bikes like.  Ride it, charge it, ride it some more.

[Fred]

I've only had my FXS a few weeks, but it's always felt right to unplug it in the morning after it charged, whether i was going to ride it or not. I'm very unlikely to go a week without riding a bike, whatever the weather or whatever bike I have.

[Low On Cash]

Hi fellow owners!

Zero is in the process of changing our charging and storage recommendations for 2013 and newer motorcycles, but it has nothing to do with power pack overheating, lawyers, or any of the other issues discussed above.  We’ve learned much from several years of experience with our current cells and from data provided by the manufacturer. We are applying these learnings in a number of areas.  One key change is that we are no longer requiring that you always keep the motorcycle plugged in. In fact, we have found that our 2013 and newer motorcycles should have even longer and healthier lives if the motorcycle is left unplugged when charging isn’t need.  We’ll be launching a communications plan to all owners in the next few weeks, but the new charging recommendations for 2013 and new bikes are:

"Charging Recommendations for 2013 and newer Zero Motorcycles (All Models)

Regular Use
After each use, you should plug your motorcycle into an AC power source to recharge.  Once it is charged, you should disconnect it from the AC power source. Leaving your motorcycle off the charger will maximize long-term power pack health.

While unplugged and keyed off, the motorcycle's electronics will consume a very small amount of power and the power pack will drain extremely slowly. If you don’t ride for an extended period (30 days or more), you may want to plug the motorcycle in for a few hours to charge it prior to your next ride.

Long-term Storage
For planned long-term storage (more than 30 days), we recommend draining the power pack to a ~60% state of charge, and leaving the charger unplugged.

Once again, the power pack will drain extremely slowly over time. Check state of charge (SoC) at least monthly, and charge it back up to 60% if it has dropped below 30%. When you’re ready to take your motorcycle out of storage to ride it again, plug in the charger for at least 24 hours to ensure optimal cell balance is restored.

Warning: Never store your motorcycle at a state of charge of less than 30%. Leaving the power pack discharged below this level for a prolonged period could damage the power pack and void the warranty."

As an owner of multiple Zero motorcycles, I had an impossible time keeping them all plugged in. So from my personal perspective, we are just relaxing our guidelines to make them even more enjoyable.

Regards,
aaronzeromoto

I would like to personally thank the folks at Zero for taking the immediate incentive to correct their “Long Term Battery Storage” recommendations for the Zero motorcycle. 

I’m certain my safety concerns posted on this forum in my article on “Long Term Battery Storage in January  http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6583.0
Combined with my personal letter to Zero with my concerns regarding the “Fire” risk of unattended charging was instrumental to their decision.

As I indicated in detail in both my letter and this forum, due to very low self-discharge rates of current lithium cells, there is no benefit in having the bike powered and unattended for long periods of time. As I outlined in my January article, a safer method of simply discharging the cells to 60-70% SOC provides better health for the pack and most important allows the bike to be un-plugged for long term storage therefore removing the possibility of charging circuitry failure, which may result in an over-charged SOC, resulting in a fire threat, loss of property or even death as we have witnessed numerous times with other lithium powered vehicles and devices.

Best Regards - Mike Mas

[Doug S]

I’m certain my safety concerns posted on this forum in my article on “Long Term Battery Storage in January  http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6583.0
Combined with my personal letter to Zero with my concerns regarding the “Fire” risk of unattended charging was instrumental to their decision.

You refuse to listen to anybody but yourself, don't you? A quote which you even repeated yourself, directly from a Zero employee, who actually knows what he's talking about: "...Zero is in the process of changing our charging and storage recommendations for 2013 and newer motorcycles, but it has nothing to do with power pack overheating, lawyers, or any of the other issues discussed above....In fact, we have found that our 2013 and newer motorcycles should have even longer and healthier lives if the motorcycle is left unplugged when charging isn’t need."

THE RISK OF FIRE IF YOU LEAVE YOUR BIKE PLUGGED IN IS INSIGNIFICANT! They're changing their recommendation because, and ONLY because, the battery pack will enjoy an even longer life if you don't leave the batteries trickle-charging all the time. I'm sure your letter to Zero went right where it belonged, the circular file. Your opinion means even less to them than it does to the members of this forum.

[ctrlburn]

I would say the Zero recommendation is more agreeing more with:
"Battery notes from a Farasis Engineer"
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5314.msg37483#msg37483
than Low's.

Charging is still going to happen while I contently sleep.

Long term storage is just awaiting what temp to set my garage thermostat.

[Fred]

I heard that Zero will be making a limited edition Zero MM in honour of the lives that Mike Mas has undoubtedly saved.

[Low On Cash]

It’s regretful there is still negativity on such an important safety issue!

Shortly after I purchased my Zero, I discovered this error regarding Zero’s recommendation for long term storage. I then addressed the issue on this forum and in writing to Zero and they immediately rectified the problem and changed their policy. The engineer from Farasis, the manufacture of these same cells confirmed my finding as well in a reply. I have worked at a professional level in design and testing with lithium powered vehicles and military drone aircraft for decades, this is my trade, I speak from past experience, therefore my comments and findings are 100% accurate. 

I’m not looking for any credit or any forum status for my findings, my only motivation is to make riders aware of this potential hazard and to hopefully make them as safe as possible. 

Regards - Mike Mas

[clay.leihy]

This topic has already been beaten to death!
Moderator, please lock this thread and don't let it come back!

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