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[Low On Cash]

Thought it would make a good discussion concerning the short falls of Zero's Regen system - As most of you already know - instead of our "Regen Braking" being proportional to the throttle, our regen is either on or off.

Regretfully, even though all the logic is there in the Zero's throttle and controller system, for reasons unknown Zero elected to go with a basic "On or Off" approach instead of a linear Regen system that is proportional to the throttle and the bikes speed.

On my custom smartphone program, I dialed up 100% regen for the twisties and while it works just OK, its very abrupt when it engages and and disengages.

Thanks - Mike

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Oh, do you think this hasn't been discussed to death for a few years now? It has. Not trying to be snarky, just saying this is well-trodden ground.

Just search for "variable regen" on the forum here for a taste.

[ultrarnr]

The amount of regen and how it comes on is very much personal taste. Last time I went out to western NC/northern GA to play in the twisties I found having 100% regen set up in Custom mode was just too much. I switched over to Sport mode and stayed there the rest of the time. 100% Regen is nice on a few of the long hills out there as you can go for several miles without SOC dropping at all. One hill you actually recharged the battery a few percent as you had a higher SOC at the bottom than you had at the top. But for pushing hard in the twisties the amount of regen in Sport mode was fine. Maybe someday I will try riding from Maggie Valley to Cherokee in Sport mode and then do it again in Custom with 100% regen and document the difference in SOC.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I should say that I now ride constantly with 0% coasting regen and 100% braking regen and I find it the best way to use a Zero after you've spent a lot of time on it.

Knowing that the transition is there (a matter of having suitable expectations) and tuning the brake lever to soften it by having it just start to touch the pads as you engage the brake regen switch might be key to it.

[Electric Terry]

I should say that I now ride constantly with 0% coasting regen and 100% braking regen and I find it the best way to use a Zero after you've spent a lot of time on it.

Knowing that the transition is there (a matter of having suitable expectations) and tuning the brake lever to soften it by having it just start to touch the pads as you engage the brake regen switch might be key to it.

There is another setting that works just as well as this if not slightly better as it gives you another option.  Set coasting regen to 50-60% and braking to 100%.  If you want to completely coast, just practice learning where the region is between throttle being off and regen being on.  it can take some time to learn, and sometimes I have had the smallest amount of throttle when I thought I was coasting but that's ok, you can see it on the dash as it gives you bar graphs on whether power is going in or out.

[DPsSRnSD]

There is another setting that works just as well as this if not slightly better as it gives you another option.  Set coasting regen to 50-60% and braking to 100%.

I use a similar setting for off-throttle regen, 45%, which is perfect for me to maneuver through stop and go traffic without running into the backs of cars.

[Low On Cash]

Thanks for all the reply's guys - sorry I was not trying to dig up old regen bones - I was more pointing to the question to why Zero would not refine their present system now they have a matured system.

If appears that all the logic is already there in their processors to enable a linear regen curve, which would just take some programming to make it work. Seems to me this would be another feather in their cap to have this advanced programmable braking system in their line of bikes.   

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel it can all be done right in Zero App if we can get some hacker to look at our app. (When the Zero App works) it has real time speed and motor and battery data, how hard would it be to have your custom program increment the regen according to throttle position.

When I bought the very first BMW I3 years ago - the morons at BMW would only allow the generator to come on when the battery was almost dead (13%). Within a month the hackers got into the system and for $100 they provided a hack which allowed you to start the genny any time the battery was below 70% plus a number of other features like for US emissions cars they could not have a fuel tank over 1.9 gallons so the pencil heads at BMW programmed the car so it would turn off the fuel pump at 1.9 gallons so when you were stranded and out of fuel there was still a gallon of fuel in your tank. This same hack defeated that problem as well. 

Regards

[Richard230]

Having been a customer of BMW motorcycles for the past 30 years (strictly due to my customer-friendly dealership), I am not surprised that you ran afoul of BMW engineering, Low On Cash.  A friend of mine, who used to be a freelance motorcycle reviewer (and was blackballed throughout the industry when he criticized their R1200S for a couple of goofy "features" in a new model review) use to say that BMW's motto was:  "Ve are making ze perfect motorcycle, ze customer knows nothing!"   

[Low On Cash]

BMW won't see a dime of my money - they are using their "once" fine name to lure customers into buying inferior products.

The BMW I3 electric is a train wreck with numerous problems. I dumped mine at a great loss and bought a Chevy Volt!

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

If appears that all the logic is already there in their processors to enable a linear regen curve, which would just take some programming to make it work. Seems to me this would be another feather in their cap to have this advanced programmable braking system in their line of bikes.

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel it can all be done right in Zero App if we can get some hacker to look at our app. (When the Zero App works) it has real time speed and motor and battery data, how hard would it be to have your custom program increment the regen according to throttle position.

It's fair to ask. The throttle input goes directly to the Sevcon controller, and it's the Sevcon settings and inputs that determine how the power train works. The phone app directs the MBB (main bike board) which can direct the Sevcon controller to change some settings on the fly.

It takes Sevcon software and a hardware connection to change that setting, and wiring up and assigning a new analog signal to yield a linear (say) regen experience is another bit of work.

[Fred]

I code for a living and do embedded programming as a hobby. It's amazing how people say "it's just a little bit of software" despite not having any idea what effort that requires or how it's done. If it's easy - give it a try yourself.

The main thing with all these possible software features is cost/benefit. It costs to redesign and manufacture PCBs. It costs to design, write and test firmware (especially if a bug could kill a customer). How does that cost compare to the net profit on any extra bikes you might sell?

[Killroy]

...Set coasting regen to 50-60% and braking to 100%.  ...

+1
I like this setting. 

[acacia1731]

I like this setting.

This would make a great poll topic, if someone knows how to set that up...  ("What are your preferred regen settings for coast and brake?")

[Low On Cash]

I code for a living and do embedded programming as a hobby. It's amazing how people say "it's just a little bit of software" despite not having any idea what effort that requires or how it's done. If it's easy - give it a try yourself.

The main thing with all these possible software features is cost/benefit. It costs to redesign and manufacture PCBs. It costs to design, write and test firmware (especially if a bug could kill a customer). How does that cost compare to the net profit on any extra bikes you might sell?

You should do some code - the guy who did the I3 charged $100 and sold thousands of the fix's

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I code for a living and do embedded programming as a hobby. It's amazing how people say "it's just a little bit of software" despite not having any idea what effort that requires or how it's done. If it's easy - give it a try yourself.

The main thing with all these possible software features is cost/benefit. It costs to redesign and manufacture PCBs. It costs to design, write and test firmware (especially if a bug could kill a customer). How does that cost compare to the net profit on any extra bikes you might sell?

You should do some code - the guy who did the I3 charged $100 and sold thousands of the fix's

That's an absurd suggestion, and shows that you have completely failed to grasp what he's trying to say.