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[Richard230]

Here are the latest photos from the EICMA show. Still nothing about specifications or pricing, though:
https://electrek.co/2018/11/06/harley-davidson-livewire-electric-motorcycle-production/

[JaimeC]

From Harley's own web page:  http://tinyurl.com/ybw7fca4

My guess?  That's a $20K motorcycle with all the features they're touting unless Harley is willing to cut their own throats in getting this bike out to riders.  Guess we'll find out in January.

[Richard230]

From Harley's own web page:  http://tinyurl.com/ybw7fca4

My guess?  That's a $20K motorcycle with all the features they're touting unless Harley is willing to cut their own throats in getting this bike out to riders.  Guess we'll find out in January.

My guess is that it will come in over $30K. Kind of like an electric version of their CVO model line.   

[Richard230]

To pontificate further:  As a H-D "premium" vehicle, I expect it will be priced right up there with their CVO motorcycles.  Last night, in the December issue of Rider Magazine, I read about their latest 117CI CVO full-dress bagger, which is priced at a staggering $43,900!    So when it comes to pricing the LiveWire - the sky may be the limit.     And that just might limit its sales numbers a bit, thereby fulfilling H-D's dealers' and enthusiasts' expectation that their customers really don't want to ride an electric motorcycle. 

[DonTom]

To pontificate further:  As a H-D "premium" vehicle, I expect it will be priced right up there with their CVO motorcycles.  Last night, in the December issue of Rider Magazine, I read about their latest 117CI CVO full-dress bagger, which is priced at a staggering $43,900!    So when it comes to pricing the LiveWire - the sky may be the limit.     And that just might limit its sales numbers a bit, thereby fulfilling H-D's dealers' and enthusiasts' expectation that their customers really don't want to ride an electric motorcycle. 

Cheap compared to this Harley, now on sale for only a little more than ten million bucks.

Do we have any takers here?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

Here is more news regarding the LiveWire:  https://electricmotorcycles.news/harley-davidson-releases-further-details-on-2019-livewire-at-eicma-2018/

There is a 40-second video providing the sound of the new LiveWire in this article.  Sounds just like the sound an Energica makes to me.  The article also has lots of adjectives describing the Wire, but few concrete facts or specifications. 

One thing that caught my attention is that all H-D dealers will have a public Level 3 DC fast charging station at each shop.  Good luck getting their dealers out in the boondocks to pay for those :rolleyes: :   

The article mentions that the LiveWire will have four factory-installed "selectable riding modes" and an additional three which can be customized by the rider. I wonder how many riding modes the LiveWire owner really needs?   

I got a kick out of this statement:  "The LiveWire motorcycle features a RESS (Rechargeable Energy Storage System, or the main battery)".  We no longer have batteries, but an RESS, which no doubt has already been trademarked by the Motor Company.   

Something else that caught my attention is that they are using a separate 12V lithium battery to operate the vehicle's auxiliary systems, instead of a DC-DC voltage converter.

However, H-D will be giving their owners a lot of recharging options: "Charging can be completed using the on-board Level 1 charger that plugs into a standard household outlet with a power cord that stores below the motorcycle seat. LiveWire can also be charged with a Level 2 or Level 3, DC Fast Charge (DCFC), through a SAE J1772 connector, (USA), or CCS2 – IEC type 2 charging connector in international markets."  (Kind of reminds me of what you get when you own an Energica.  ) 

[centra12]

Something else that caught my attention is that they are using a separate 12V lithium battery to operate the vehicle's auxiliary systems, instead of a DC-DC voltage converter.

 

The 12 volt battery is therefore needed to meet new safety requirements. Normally, they must not   let high voltage or down regulated HV voltage (resistors) through the ignition!
orange cables are indication for that this purpose.
The BMW C Evolution has since the beginning of a 12 volt battery.
Of course, the DC / DC converter is still available.

[Crilly]

I would think the 12 volt batteries also act as a suppressors for dc/dc inverters.

[DonTom]

I would think the 12 volt batteries also act as a suppressors for dc/dc inverters.

I assume you mean converter (DC output). Inverter usually means AC output. But why do they even need to suppress noise (if that's what you mean)?  If there were radios on these bike perhaps then such noise would be an issue, but even that depends on many things, such as the frequency and level of the noise generated. The stuff the DC to DC converters run on our bikes such as the lights, horn, etc., don't care about the noise.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[caza]

The nice thing is that with a 12v battery, if your main battery or if the controller fails for whatever reason, you still have lights. A good safety feature for sure, expecially since we've heard of Zeros cutting out on the freeway, including lights.

Downside, the 12v battery can die independent of the main battery. You can have 50 miles of range in the main battery but not be able to start the bike because some aspect of phantom drain (maybe the 4G chip) has killed your 12v battery.

This happened in my Volt. 12v accec. battery died even though I had a full main battery. Had to get a jump start to get the computer up and running so I could start the car.

[DonTom]

The nice thing is that with a 12v battery, if your main battery or if the controller fails for whatever reason, you still have lights. A good safety feature for sure, expecially since we've heard of Zeros cutting out on the freeway, including lights.

Downside, the 12v battery can die independent of the main battery. You can have 50 miles of range in the main battery but not be able to start the bike because some aspect of phantom drain (maybe the 4G chip) has killed your 12v battery.

This happened in my Volt. 12v accec. battery died even though I had a full main battery. Had to get a jump start to get the computer up and running so I could start the car.

Do the Zeros die if they lose the 13.8 VDC?   

BTW, do you know how the Teslas do it?  I own a new Model 3, but I never looked into it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

[caza]

I don't know if zeros die if the DC-DC fails but I do know that if the main contactor closes you lose your lights/ accessory power.

I know at least the 2016 model S's had lead acid 12v batteries, owners were complaining about poor performance.

I've killed the 12v battery of my volt just sitting in the car listening to music for a bit. Super frusterating. Onboard computer should never let the 12v battery get too low when you still have power in the main pack, but it does.

[DonTom]

I don't know if zeros die if the DC-DC fails but I do know that if the main contactor closes you lose your lights/ accessory power.

I know at least the 2016 model S's had lead acid 12v batteries, owners were complaining about poor performance.

I've killed the 12v battery of my volt just sitting in the car listening to music for a bit. Super frusterating. Onboard computer should never let the 12v battery get too low when you still have power in the main pack, but it does.

You mean if the main contactor opens. Of course that will kill everything.

I don't know if this applies to my 12V of my Tesla, but I have heard if the "batteries" get down to 20% of normal range, everything not needed shuts off to help keep the motor running.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[centra12]

Hello

I am also curious which standards the motorcycles in Europe meet?

Since 2016, ECE-R-136 is required in Europe and it is very difficult. Could be a reason why the Harley is so expensive.

For info.
Already in 2012 the ECE-R100 was standard in Europe, but it did not have to fulfill Zero because of "small series manufacturers" !!!!! What has happened is we all know !! If Zero had to fulfill the R100 at that time, not a one Zero would have been burn in Europe.

Now the question arises is the Zero F complete new development and is Zero a small manufacturer? !!

[Richard230]

H-D also shows off an electric scooter and a bicycle (a little late on this one).  I wonder if the scooter will be named the Topper? The headlight on the scooter looks like it is missing something. :confused:
https://electricmotorcycles.news/harley-davidson-reveals-two-groundbreaking-lightweight-electric-concepts-at-ces-2019/