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[Clorox]

So I am new to the electric motorcycle community, but not to electric vehicles as I have leased a Nissan Leaf in the past. This last year was a bit of a whirlwind career wise for me between switching jobs and losing jobs and searching for new employment. To keep myself busy and mentally active I got my first ICE motorcycle a 1975 Yamaha RD200, got it running again, and got my motorcycle license. Also during that time my lease ran up on my Nissan Leaf and I decided to not extend it for financial reasons. Long story short I deeply miss having an electric vehicle and I now have a deep love for anything two wheels. Having been fascinated by Zero Motorcycles for the last few years and now having my job situation settled out I think it may be time to take the dive. So I have a few questions for current owners.

My main conundrum is should I seek out a new 2017 model with all the new features or try to save a bit of cash by tracking down a 2016 model? Specs wise there is only a slight bit of differences between the new and older models, and being that I would be coming up from a little 200cc engine anything performance wise is going to be a improvement for me. But what is really hanging me up is the announcement that the 2017 models will have the capability to update their motorcycle firmware though the APP. To me that sounds great because it would prevent me from having to rely on a dealer/mechanic for repairs or updates. However, my question is how frequently and common has it been in the past for Zero Motorcycles to completely update the firmware? Or typically has this just been done when the new models come out? Also how frequently has the firmware been the answer to your motorcycle malfunctions? Or are those typically mechanical problems? What I am trying to get at is the ability to update your own firmware a real game changer or more in line with a “gimmick”? Keep in mind this is coming from a guy that has been doing all of his own motorcycle mechanical work and would like to keep it that way as much as possible. But I understand there is a difference when it comes to Electrical vs. ICE work. 

I am scheduled to test drive one next week and I am beyond excited.
   

[mrwilsn]

The ability to update firmware using the app is a big deal and not a gimmick but I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker if considering a 2015 or 2016 bike.  There are a lot of reasons that collectively make the 2017 bikes a nice improvement over the 2016 and older bikes but the older bikes are still really good.  If you are cost conscious you can find great deals on older bikes.

Updates to bike firmware are not necessarily tied to new models being released.  Changes to firmware could affect a whole host of different things that are observable to the end user.

As for examples of things that have been fixed with a firmware update...I didn't do any firmware updates on my 2014 Zero S for 2 years of owning it and the bike served me great.  I never used the app much until I started to fast charge at which point I noticed that the app would always show N/A under charging amps, charging watts and time to charge.  A couple months ago I took my bike into the shop for a firmware update.  After the firmware update all of the charging fields work correctly.  I have also noticed an improvement in the way the state of charge is calculated especially when using fast chargers through the aux charge port.

It's understandable that the older bikes won't support updating the firmware through the app.  But it would be nice if the app would at least give owners of older bikes a notification when new firmware is available along with a change log so that owners can decide if they need to bring the bike in for an update and if so how urgently the update needs to be completed.  The app should also give notifications for regularly scheduled maintenance....especially "motor commissioning and timing" that is required every 8k miles.

[oobflyer]

As an owner of two Zeros (2012 and 2015) I would say that the answer depends on a couple of things.
First of all I had many firmware updates on both bikes, but I don't live that far from the dealership so it was no big deal - how far do you live from your dealership?
The reason I had many updates on my '15 is because I have the PowerTank and Zero was having trouble finding just the right instructions to keep the two battery packs in sync. Will you be looking to get a bike with the PowerTank? (By the way I think Zero has figured out the issues with the two battery packs - I haven't had any trouble since the last update - eight months ago).
If the used bike that you are looking at is stable - no issues with riding or charging (like mrwilson's experience) - you probably won't need to worry about updates.
That said - Zero is constantly improving, so keeping your bike's firmware current would be an advantage.
Yesterday, for example, I took my '15 in for a recall issue (DC-DC converter) and while the bike was there they installed the latest firmware for me.

[LateLifeCrises]

  "The app should also give notifications for regularly scheduled maintenance....especially "motor commissioning and timing" that is required every 8k miles."
[/quote]

Since my 2015 S just turned 8000 miles I am curious about your mention of motor commissioning and timing. The PDF manual has a section on scheduled maintenance but there is no mention of any motor commissioning and timing. Is this something that was added on later models?
What exactly is motor commissioning and timing?

I am happy the way the bike is performing and am concerned about 2 things.

1) If it is "required" and I do not bring the bike to the dealer will that affect the warranty?
2) Many times I am not happy with an update but it can't be undone as in if it ain't broke then don't fix it.

[Richard230]

My 2014 S is running great at 10K miles.  It has never had a firmware update, nor has it ever had a "motor commissioning and timing" - whatever that is.    It just keeps chugging along.   

[Shadow]

Motor commissioning and timing is IPM motor only?

[MrDude_1]

Motor commissioning and timing is IPM motor only?

yeah... but all the 2017s are IPM motors.
direct from the 2017 manual here: http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2017/2017-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS-DSR.pdf  look at page 6.5

[Kocho]

Any changes to the bike's behavior or the app after the new firmware? Are you using the current or previous version of the app? My '15 SR had the latest firmware installed this summer, so you might have gotten the same as I got now or newer. But mine works perfectly as far as I can tell with that firmware (knock on wood) and the previous version of the app works fine too, so I'm planning to stick with that firmware unless someone tells me specifically there is a particular problem that newer firmware would address or there is some other substantial benefit. Unlike computers, where you got to stay current or you risk viruses and such and compatibility issues with new software, with these bikes if it ain't broken it is probably better to not touch it ... The problem is, I have not seen "release notes" for any of the firmware updates - we as consumers have no clue what they address and if they are even needed for our specific bikes...

Yesterday, for example, I took my '15 in for a recall issue (DC-DC converter) and while the bike was there they installed the latest firmware for me.

[Erasmo]

Just another thought, Zero bikes are great and cheap to run but they aren't cheap to buy. Why not wait until you get a new job before you get one and use the Yamaha in the meantime?
Of course I can't look in your wallet but getting a brand new Zero without a job is something you might want to reconsider?

[Clorox]

Erasmo, Thanks for the concern, but I do have a job now. As stated in my original post I have my "job situation settled out". Otherwise, I would never be considering such a large financial decision. 

Everyone else, Thanks for the great comments. It has been very insightful.

[Erasmo]

Erasmo, Thanks for the concern, but I do have a job now. As stated in my original post I have my "job situation settled out". Otherwise, I would never be considering such a large financial decision. 

Everyone else, Thanks for the great comments. It has been very insightful.

I must have read over that part, in that case disregard my post.

[domingo3]

Does Zero list firmware updates on their website somewhere?  I'm leaning towards the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp, but I don't even know how to tell if there's a new version of the firmware available.

[Richard230]

I just took a look at the 2017 Zero owner's manual and I am suitably impressed.    It certainly is a lot more informative than any similar document that I have seen from BMW or any Japanese motorcycle company lately.  That is an excellent manual, in my opinion. 

However (personally) I do think Zero is being a bit conservative with their maintenance schedule.  I am not sure all of those service items really need to be accomplished every 4K miles - but I guess it can't hurt.  The need for that motor servicing continues to confound me.  I would sure like to know what that is about. 

In the back of my mind I wonder if Zero is not trying to toss more work than necessary at the franchised dealer's "backroom" to help support their bottom line the way all other IC vehicle companies do.     While that may seem like a good idea to keep the retail dealer's owner busy and continuing to be interested in selling Zero, around here motorcycle shops are selling motorcycles a lot faster than they can service them. Everyone has "help wanted" signs up and there is a lot more work available than there are technicians to perform it - and that is for IC motorcycles.  No doubt things are a lot worse hiring qualified technicians to service and repair the new EV technology.  However I will admit that most motorcycle shops just can't pay enough to retain a technician so that they can survive in the SF Bay Area.  I think I read that the poverty level around here is something like $70K a year.  Having an income any less than that and you can't afford an apartment, food or a new cell phone.