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[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Oh, I totally forgot it was 2013, which I also have! Yes, check that switch wiring on the front bracket that hangs out there next to the headlamp, along with wherever it's routed....it might toggle the riding mode on you while you were riding

Well, if it happens again the next time I drive in the rain/thick fog I'll try greasing them up. But that doesn't seem to have any chance of solving my primary issue, correct? I didn't see any signs of wear, but the contacts are exposed to open air. The mode being toggled doesn't explain the difference in the strength of the regen braking, or could it? I did try using the mode switch and I think I was able to successfully toggle between modes (I think sport was normal, don't remember 100%) but each time I switched back to Eco it had powerful regen. And again, I'm not sure that the mode being toggled by lose or wet wiring could explain the random braking/lurching that is my primary/recurring issue.

I just re-read your symptom explanation again from the top, which sounds like some kind of control signal problem, but the dealer could be right that the signal problem is from or around the throttle somehow or the controller. (The throttle is a potentiometer so it could be shorting or something because of debris or moisture or a manufacturing defect. Not that the result makes a lot of sense but some problems don't make sense.)


The original problem with strong jerking at speed does not seem explainable outside the Sevcon controller - regen is limited in the controller to a level that outside signals shouldn't be able to override, so anything that feels stronger than 100% regen would not be from the mode switch or user-level settings.

Anyway, about the mode, when the mode toggles, the regen setting takes effect immediately, whether you're using the brakes (brake-level regen) or not (coasting regen). If the regen setting is different between modes, a mode switch of any kind will be perceptible. One reason to look at the app is to see what the Eco mode is customized to, regardless of whether you try to correct it.

[WoadRaider]

Hey Brian, thanks for all the info.
I am trying to figure out how to use the log parser, are there instructions anywhere? What program do I use it with? From what I can tell it's just code to be added to a program, is that correct?

As I said in my previous post the bike ran perfectly Wednesday night and Thursday morning/afternoon. I drove it back to work Thursday evening, after I made that post, and there were issues again.
It didn't want to go when I was stopped at a light and the motor (assuming it was motor) made a clinking/clunking/cackling/racketing/rumbling/grinding sound; like an ICEngine that's just barely running/turning over and about to run out of gas/low on fuel. Or maybe the sound was closer to that of a winding/grinding/stalling electric motor. It also kind of sounded like two parts were hitting each other, I'm bad at describing sounds. I just closed the throttle and the bike had regular power after I opened it again.
Whatever caused the sound happened twice more (while driving and to a lesser extent) and was similar to sounds I've heard before when the more severe issues are occurring. It may have been the sound I heard during the more severe lurching/loss of power episode, or a component of that sound.
There was also some slowing/minor lurching.

It ran OK yesterday, just a few minor slowing instances, wonder how it will do today.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The log parser is a Python script.  If it's not clear how to deal with that, post the log files and someone can post back a decoded result.

But your symptoms as described are very hard to pin down. I'd take it back to the dealer with some kind of evidence like a sound recording if you can catch it.

[WoadRaider]

Yeah, I think that's a bit more than I want to mess with right now. If someone can post back the decoded log file(s) that I uploaded/posted that would be great.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Oops! I forgot that I had enough time to do that now... Here they are, gzipped (hopefully trivial to unpack, just needed to fit the attachment size limit quickly).

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Combined ZIP file.

[WoadRaider]

Thanks Brian, but I think I solved the issue before I was willing to put in the effort to make sense of the logs.

As it turns out kingcharles appears to have been correct. I put some paper between the brake lever and its attachment point/mount in the hopes of creating enough friction to stop bumps and wind from moving it enough to activate the break. And it seems to have worked; I haven't had any issues since. This solution doesn't strike me as particularly good; too much friction and that weak spring will take too long to snap the lever back into place (or it might not at all), too little and it doesn't matter. So I'm either going to replace the spring or add a little stopper in the spring hole so that it's more compressed and exerts more pressure. I might also put a thin layer of paint/glue on the metal at the break lever attachment to give it just the right amount of friction.

I really didn't think that would be the issue. Given how intermittent and seemingly random the issues were, and that the lurching seemed to happen only slightly more often after bumps/on bumpy roads (I wasn't even sure of that). And especially given all of the varied symptoms/issues I've had, but I can't deny reality.

Thanks to everyone for the help/advice/input and I hope this helps anyone who has this issue in the future. To lay it out clearly for anyone having this issue: The spring that pushes the break lever back into place is weak, so if your break light regen is activated in front of/before the break, wind or bumps can be enough to move the break lever and activate the regenerative breaking. 

[WoadRaider]

Well, it's been over a month. I came up with a more permanent solution. I took out the paper, it didn't really help much with friction; what had actually fixed the lurching issue was adjusting the front brake activation screw so that the sensor for the brake light (and regen) was/is activated/released after the screw contacts the brake rod/piston. Anyway, my solution was to put a small piece of metal in the spring slot (which is way too long for the spring) so that it would actually have decent compression/recoil strength. In addition: My new handlebar setup worked out so that it was convenient to have the bottom of the brake lever rest on the front right turn signal; any bump/wind energy will have to overcome the friction between the lever and signal before the lever can move.

While the lurching (of all severity) has completely vanished, there are still a few troubling lingering symptoms; which suggests that there was either a secondary issue or that the regen somehow caused damage to the motor or some other part. The bike now makes cackling/crackling/grumbling/popping sounds, sometimes followed/accompanied by a lack of power. I've heard my bike (or other Zero's) make sounds similar to the least concerning sounds (low cackling/grumbling) among this new sound regimen; but as far as I remember they were rare, short, and not followed by any performance issues. It happens most commonly when the bike is asked to work hard (go uphill from a stop or in high torque setting). Here are the instances I remembered to make note of (sorry I wasn't more detailed, I'm usually going to work when it happens): 1. Motor didn't respond to throttle after switching to sport. (I think I had to switch back to eco). 2. While in sport (probably stopped at a light), I fully opened the throttle and was rewarded with a concerning lack of response and a nasty sound. (I think closing the throttle and re-opening worked that time, I might have done it a few times very quickly). 3. On Oct 30th; Shortly after leaving the house (or, if I failed to notice it, perhaps as soon as the bike had booted up) the warning light was flashing and the power output was uneasy (I think it was also making some sound), I rode it like that for a little over half a mile hoping for some hint as to what was happening (and waiting for a safe spot to pull over). The bike worked fine after restarting. 4. A few days later crackling and 1 pop from ? the motor?   
The sound and power issues are relatively sparse, but occur in clusters; I'll have several trips with no sign of any issue, and then... there will be a trip (or two) in which I hear the various sounds anywhere from twice to ~ten times (the sound is less often accompanied by a noticeable performance drop).

[MajorMajor]

I've had one scary experience on my 2016 FXS.
At top speed and during a slight lean, it felt like the bike slammed on full regen suddenly.
I'm not sure if it was caused by wind or if I accidentally touched the rear or front brakes (it was very sudden).
Hasn't happened again in the last few months so I have no further data.

I think the severity of the sudden braking is so bad because regen is on/off instead of being a gradient.
If we had control over the amount of regen (through the levers) then a slight tap (like from wind) would not cause such a jarring slow down.

[Shadow]

I've experienced sudden 100% braking or acceleration on S and DSR.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I've added a warning on the wiki in the relevant section.
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#Brake_Lever_Regens_before_Pad_Contact

[WoadRaider]

At top speed and during a slight lean, it felt like the bike slammed on full regen suddenly.
I'm not sure if it was caused by wind or if I accidentally touched the rear or front brakes (it was very sudden).

I'm not familiar with the FXS configuration, but I lowered my 2013 S rear brake pedal; primarily so that I wouldn't accidentally tap it (I hate the idea of having the brake engaged while accelerating). When you pull your front brake lever does the brake light (and regen brake) engage before or after the front brake hydraulic actuating cylinder is contacted by the adjustable screw? What do you have your regen settings at? Did the braking effect seem stronger than normal?

I've experienced sudden 100% braking or acceleration on S and DSR.

How often? Did you have any indication as to the cause? What were your brake settings?

I've added a warning on the wiki in the relevant section.

Thanks Brian, I hope you don't mind; I took the liberty of making the warning a little more expansive so that the reader doesn't have to search through this thread for the specific solutions.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Nice, thank you. I split the explanation up a bit to be easier to read but it's identical textually.

[Shadow]

I've experienced sudden 100% braking or acceleration on S and DSR.

How often? Did you have any indication as to the cause? What were your brake settings?

I am guessing debris getting thrown into the belt or is it possible that the motor controller and motor timing issue could brake the rear wheel up at highway speeds? Perhaps the throttle is malfunctioning too sometimes?  I remember the rear wheel of a loaner 2016 S locking up on the freeway at 70mph for a few yards distance. Occasionally maybe once every 1000mi on my 2016 DSR the throttle will blip to stupidly-full-power for a fraction of a second and break traction, which I'm not sure if it's the throttle mechanism, a firmware bug, or that the dealership looks 100% confused and bewildered when I ask if the scheduled maintenance for recommissioning the IPM motor is something that I should have the bike in for?

I've not crashed the bike in these situations because of the malfunctions. Yet.

This stuff happens so quick it's over and done with before I recognize what is happening.