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Author Topic: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?  (Read 7528 times)

Electric Terry

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2016, 10:17:39 PM »

Yes I agree with all of you.  Zero started with the "Drift" which was tiny in the effort to reduce weight as everything possible to reduce energy consumption from the costly and bulky batteries was desired.  Well from 2011 to 2013 each year there was rapid development.  The battery energy density grew, and therefore it was less important to worry about ounces in the frame having an impact on range and so the frame also got stronger each year.   The last major chassis change happened in 2013 and so quite a few years has passed and energy density has also continued to go up.  So lets hope next frame is much larger and much stronger to adapt to many uses, and many riders. 

I have a good friend in Santa Cruz who drives a Tesla and wants a Zero, but he is 6'8" and 300 pounds and doesn't fit.  He always jokes and asks if Craig Vetter and I can put 2 Zero frames together or something for him so he and other tall or big guys can enjoy buying and riding a Zero too.  Although having the frame lower in the back to allow a shorter seat that still has padding is important too.  I'd like to see riders that are 4'10" to 5'5" be able to flat foot if needed. 

All rider height issues could be solved with 3 different seating options with the main seat (like the one now) reaching the biggest area under the bell curve or 70% of motorcyclists, and the 15% of really tall and big riders, and the 15% of short riders could get a special seat to fit them better as long as the frame design had this in mind.  Doesn't sound like much but it means Zero could sell potentially 30% more motorcycles just from this alone.  Worth designing 3 seat options in my opinion.  Even if it only ended up being 20% more riders, since Zero is selling more bikes each year, this becomes a bigger number and could be justified.

I hope if there is a redesign planned in the future that the chassis is built with touring potential in mind.  If someone wants to have 40 kWh of battery on the bike, it should be able to handle it size and weight wise.  Luggage weight potential in the back needs to go up.  And having the frame go all the way to the back tire as one piece to save parts, save money, save assembly cost, and add strength.  Right now the frame arches back from the center tube but stops 3 times shorter than it should.  A solid aluminum cast piece is bolted in, and then an extender is bolted to that to have the license plate and reflector be at the back of the bike. 

As time goes on it would seem making the bike cost less to produce would be a desirable goal, and reducing the number of parts that need to be ordered, stored, and then the time to assemble all of them could be cut from a design that had a strong frame that went all the way to the back of the back tire to begin with and could carry a passengers weight in batteries at the back if you wanted to.

Zero is just now 10 years old.  Lets hope we can see something like this before the next 10 years is up.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 10:36:38 PM by Electric Terry »
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Fivespeed302

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2016, 09:27:36 AM »

To answer the original question, I am happy with the current range and I love the storage compartment.  I have a second bike for distance riding but 98% is local riding.  I have never been stranded from running the battery dead in 9000+ miles.
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togo

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2017, 09:24:34 AM »

Someone at the Zero event asked about graphine. I am pretty sure that the response
from Zero was that the are presently using a very small amount already. Then proceeded
to give a very detailed explanation of battery chemistry.

That was probably Luke talking. :)

IIRC Luke said he couldn't talk about the graphene. : - ). Which is not the same thing as denying it.
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togo

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2017, 09:30:44 AM »

To answer the original question, I am happy with the current range and I love the storage compartment.  I have a second bike for distance riding but 98% is local riding.  I have never been stranded from running the battery dead in 9000+ miles.

A couple of months ago I'd have said I absolutely wanted all the battery I could get. And for long road trips through the desert, it's really necessary. But SCv2 has changed that a bit for me. When it's fast to plug in and unplug, and you can make to the next station without stress, and there's a nice place to sit and have an espresso or take a walk, it's not such a big issue. At least in places where there are enough stations.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:21:17 PM by togo »
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Richard230

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »

I have a friend who owns two BMWs and he was speaking to a Zero rep at their test ride event last Sunday morning (he is also the guy that asked about the cost of a replacement belt) and his comment was that he would buy an electric motorcycle when they finally could travel for 200 miles at freeway speeds as that was his typical ride without stopping. The response was that "we will get there soon as battery capacity is increasing every year".
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tamjam

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2017, 09:57:55 PM »

Somehow I missed this thread until today. My 2c on the subject as someone who mostly commutes on his DSR and prior to this owned ICE bikes is that while the idea of being able to go further sounds great on paper, I am not sure I'd want to spend that long on my DSR. My prior bike...a 2011 Triumph Tiger...was way more comfortable and stable at freeway speeds than my DSR is, so for me, I think I am in the camp of keeping a 2nd bike around for longer trips. I am not sure I could ever go back to commuting on an ICE bike though, and rides in the local twisties are way more fun on the Zero than they were on my Tiger.

That said, maybe with some minor tweaks to the ergonomics of my DSR to make it more freeway-worthy, it'd be the equivalent of finally pooping inside after years of thinking I was happy going to the outhouse, to draw in one of Terry's other analogies.
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gyrocyclist

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2017, 03:11:05 AM »

a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.   
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?

I'm interested, however, I'm guessing that within the next three years battery technology is going to vastly improve, so would hesitate to put $$ into extra batteries at this point in time. Related, my next car will be electric -- or possibly hybrid. But again, I'm willing to wait two-four years for improvements. (2016 SR)
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Richard230

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2017, 04:01:10 AM »

a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.   
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?

I'm interested, however, I'm guessing that within the next three years battery technology is going to vastly improve, so would hesitate to put $$ into extra batteries at this point in time. Related, my next car will be electric -- or possibly hybrid. But again, I'm willing to wait two-four years for improvements. (2016 SR)

My friend likes to ride at 75 mph on the freeway so that he can keep up with traffic.  I might add that some years ago he rode from the BMW rally in Spokane, WA to his home in the SF Bay Area, nonstop on a BMW F650CS, without a break - something that I could never do. (I managed that ride in two days.) So he is kind of a hardcore rider.  He is currently riding a BMW F800ST and rides 50 miles every Sunday morning to Alice's restaurant and back home.  (Personally, I wouldn't do that for their food.  ::) )
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Burton

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2017, 04:26:18 AM »

As someone who has done "day trips" starting at 7am and ending at 11pm on my bike range is king. This is the very reason I am streamlining my bike ... reduce the energy used at speed and you get more range for the same power.

If zero came out with a cruising scooter format bike I would seriously consider it as it already blocks wind, it is likely to get more range, and it would be easy to add a tail on it :D
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Erasmo

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2017, 11:50:27 AM »

a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.   
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?

I'm interested, however, I'm guessing that within the next three years battery technology is going to vastly improve, so would hesitate to put $$ into extra batteries at this point in time. Related, my next car will be electric -- or possibly hybrid. But again, I'm willing to wait two-four years for improvements. (2016 SR)
I hope that sometimes in the future they do a similar battery swapping thing like with MY13, a lot of people might be interested in it.
On the subject of your next car, do it! Practically every commute can be made with an EV and if you have a really bad case you can always go plug-in hybrid so that at least the first section will be electric.

My friend likes to ride at 75 mph on the freeway so that he can keep up with traffic.  I might add that some years ago he rode from the BMW rally in Spokane, WA to his home in the SF Bay Area, nonstop on a BMW F650CS, without a break - something that I could never do. (I managed that ride in two days.) So he is kind of a hardcore rider.  He is currently riding a BMW F800ST and rides 50 miles every Sunday morning to Alice's restaurant and back home.  (Personally, I wouldn't do that for their food.  ::) )
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togo

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2017, 01:00:56 AM »

As someone who has done "day trips" starting at 7am and ending at 11pm on my bike range is king.

I don't know.  Rapid plug in, rapid go, charging available at every stop, opens up range.  I can now charge at 10,000 watts up to about 80%, and if I ride at 5,000, I get two minutes of riding for every minute I'm charging.  So I'm inclined to not even use my full range, just ride on 20-80%, i.e. about 6 Kwh of my 10 nominal of my 11.4 stated.  (Except, of course, start at 100% after overnight charging.)


This is the very reason I am streamlining my bike ... reduce the energy used at speed and you get more range for the same power.

I agree 100%.


If zero came out with a cruising scooter format bike I would seriously consider it as it already blocks wind, it is likely to get more range, and it would be easy to add a tail on it :D

I was actually thinking it would be cool to port my 2011 S drivetrain to my Vectrix at one point.

But they convinced me to trade in for a 2014 old-stock at the end of 2015.  I chose the SR.  I don't regret it.


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togo

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2017, 01:03:49 AM »

a good 200 miles highway range between necessary charge stops.   
Could you clarify what highway speed this references? 55mph? 75mph?
...

Terry has a reputation for riding fast.

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Burton

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2017, 02:51:00 AM »

I was actually thinking it would be cool to port my 2011 S drivetrain to my Vectrix at one point.

But they convinced me to trade in for a 2014 old-stock at the end of 2015.  I chose the SR.  I don't regret it.

Give me a honda tmax with burgman adjustable windshield / mirrors in electric and I would likely be gleaming ear to ear lol

My 2013 is one of the first SR's in existence ;)
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togo

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2017, 03:04:04 AM »

I was actually thinking it would be cool to port my 2011 S drivetrain to my Vectrix at one point.

But they convinced me to trade in for a 2014 old-stock at the end of 2015.  I chose the SR.  I don't regret it.

Give me a honda tmax with burgman adjustable windshield / mirrors in electric and I would likely be gleaming ear to ear lol

My 2013 is one of the first SR's in existence ;)

Well, it looks like you can get burgmaneque components all the way up to a full vx-1 at vectrixparts.com.    F-book reminded me that I re-shared a "vectrix is back" article a year ago.

And you can probably motorize mirrors by finding some car mirrors at a junkyard.

Electric windshield?  Hmmmm.... really?


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Burton

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Re: 200 miles highway range?? Who's interested?
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2017, 03:17:58 AM »

Electric windshield?  Hmmmm.... really?



Yeah really ... it is slick.

How much battery can you shove into a vectrix and what range will it get with that at highway speeds? Could your ride it year round in a place where it gets -10 F to 110F and rains often?

The closest thing to a long range scooter i can find is the LRC-X by ZEV and they do real road testing for their numbers (not dyno testing) ...
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