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[Doug S]

Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?

I've thought about the same thing many times, but with a generator instead. You could turn your bike into a hybrid when you wanted to take a long road trip.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyway looking to see what others think

I've long personally held the opinion that electric bikes need about 30kwh (or thereabouts) to hit 200 miles of range, and that for me is the ideal highway range.
It basically hits the same sort of range as my diversion (Seca 900) and means that for me the Zero would be a proper touring bike.

Also a Zero with 200 miles of range would be a more viable bike for taking part in regular bike runs with ICE bikes, something it struggles to do at the moment.

I'd love a 200 mile capable Zero.

[Richard230]

Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?

I've thought about the same thing many times, but with a generator instead. You could turn your bike into a hybrid when you wanted to take a long road trip.

I don't think any motorcycle manufacturer would embrace the idea of pulling a trailer.  Too much product liability involved, especially in the U.S.  And likely, the EU wouldn't be too happy about the idea, either.  Something like a trike or sidecar might work, but the market for either of those is not great, compared with the cost of development and marketing.  Although Polaris or CanAm might consider electrifying their existing reverse-trikes.  But I sure don't see Zero going in that direction.

[mrwilsn]

Instead of a new bike or adding bricks where theres not much room... what about a low, single wheel streamlined trailer that held the modules?

keep it off 90% of the time.. then for those longer runs, you just trailer up and plug them in.  They couldnt be directly plugged in of course.. diffrent state of charge on the batteries, and the current surging from acceleration... but a robust 60a DC DC converter onboard could charge the batteries at the same rate they were being used on the highway... and then the same connector-charger could act as another charger when charging the bike.

like this but smaller and sleeker:


maybe shaped more like this with a wheel at the back:

@ElectricZen bought one of these trail tail trailers. Its compatible with the Zero and seems like it would work great...even better if they made it out of aluminum.  A trailer does seem like a better option for renting or just for ease of removal when not needed. Might even offer extra storage in addition to the extra batteries.

http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5755.0

https://trailtail.com/

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Electric Terry]

Agreed, 200 miles highway range is a great number, especially for joining other motorcyclists on group rides.  While the actual rides aren't usually too much more than 100 miles, you have to get to the starting point and get home, and many times the group rides are very spirited and the wh/mile consumption is very high.

There are 2 ways to do this

Aerodynamics that double highway range
Or having the ability to carry 30 kWh

No one seems to want to look like a streamliner, even though I could go 300 miles on my Vetter bike at 70 mph with 27 kWh.
http://insideevs.com/electric-terry-hershner-rides-300-miles-on-zero-motorcycle-on-one-charge/

But I would think that a combination of the two with a 50% improvement in reducing the Cd to perhaps 0.6 or something similar or a little better than the Hayabusa aerodynamics AND the ability to hold an additional 13 kWh of battery capacity.

As far as a trailer I have never used one, but have thought about it a lot and decided against it because of handling concerns from reviews.  Lightweight trailers seemed to have good reviews, a 50 pound trailer with a pillow, sleeping bag, and air mattress inside.  But I wanted to carry batteries.  Heavy trailers had some terrible experiences from things I read and so I mounted the weight on the bike itself.

After experimenting with weight all over the motorcycle, I can tell you weight over the front wheel or 60% or more towards the front and less than 40% towards the rear is ideal for handling.  You get very responsive steering input.  It actually improves the handling of the bike in my opinion.

Rear mounted batteries as panniers can reduce steering response and can amplify wobbling on the bike if the wheels aren't 100.00% aligned, or there is any play in rear wheel bearings or even head tube bearings, of which I have experienced all.  When the weight is over the front wheel, the motorcycle acts like it's own car and trailer system.  It pulls straight like an arrow with the weight at the front.  The front wheel and forks are your car, and the whole rest of the motorcycle is the car trailer.  The trailer might be the traction source, but stability wants the weight on the car or the trailer can start to wobble at high speed. 

So for those with handling concerns, weight towards the front, i.e. 1 or 2 modules on each side where the crash bars are (like the bmw boxer cylinder position) would be perfect.  I would just like to see these batteries be able to pop in and out easy so you could remove them when not in use to improve flickability in twisties on the weekday commutes.  I think 2 modules on each side would fit perfect and allow a current 13.0 kWh bike to hold 26.0 kWh this way and still have an empty top case and panniers for clothes and gear.  A charge tank or supercharger could go the tank area.  And an aerodynamic fairing that is just as wide as your legs (just as wide as the battery modules anyway), might as well use this space!!

[mrwilsn]

I'm more interested in aero improvements than extra batteries.  More batteries extend your ride but also extend your recharge time...unless you have enough chargers and can find a source with enough power. Aero would extend your ride without extending recharge time...I would rather do more with less.  Plus more batteries would be a lot more expensive solution than better aero.

I prefer a fairing closer to hayabusa (but with a windscreen that allows for an upright seating position) than a vetter streamliner even though the streamliner would see better improvement in range...but I would still be interested in a streamliner if it was bolt on and not to difficult to remove since I only need it for distance trips and not my daily commute.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'm more interested in aero improvements than extra batteries.  More batteries extend your ride but also extend your recharge time...unless you have enough chargers and can find a source with enough power. Aero would extend your ride without extending recharge time...I would rather do more with less.  Plus more batteries would be a lot more expensive solution than better aero.

I tend to agree (and I'm sure Terry does) that the aero improvements take a priority and make for a less aggressively oriented trip. Once you take on more batteries, you're investing at least a few thousand dollars in infrastructure that requires a more aggressive charging plan.

On the other hand, more batteries allows you to charge at an existing rate and stress the batteries less! Which only occurred to me just now. Raising the effective C-rate improves performance across the range of usage.

In any case, aerodynamics and battery/charging upgrades are complementary, thankfully, so we can pursue both lines of inquiry as a community. The only question is what solutions will we collectively shell out money for or contribute time to effectively? We should be thinking of this as a bootstrap effort where we go out of our way for a 2-4 years as a small group before a major player can invest in a hopefully grown market that is ready for touring.

I prefer a fairing closer to hayabusa (but with a windscreen that allows for an upright seating position) than a vetter streamliner even though the streamliner would see better improvement in range...but I would still be interested in a streamliner if it was bolt on and not to difficult to remove since I only need it for distance trips and not my daily commute.

Come to think of it, I may grab a local cast-off racing hayabusa fairing just to mock it up - it's honestly one of the few sportbike fairings that is fuller and can accommodate the LSL headlight cutout easily.

[Richard230]

Here is the way that the batteries of my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S were packaged.

[Alan Stewart]

With regards to battery capacity and charge time I think Elon Musk has it right: For long distance travel you need to be able to get three hours ride time from 30 minutes charge time. Of course three hours ride time @ 70 mph is 210 miles.

[Electronpusher]

With some aero improvements you could probably get about 130 miles per charge with the big battery and the power tank with each additional power tank adding about 23 miles range highway.  So you might have to add 3 more to get the 200 mile range.  The aero improvements could still maintain the look of the bike versus the Vetter fairing.  With some serious cfd time you could probably get it down to the big battery plus power tank plus 2  more modules.  With no frame or suspension mods the carrying capacity with even 2 new modules would be down too about 240 pounds.  All of this means it would have to be designed from the ground up as a long range toured.

I would love 200 mile range just don't see it in the cards right now.  Price tag alone would be about 25k similar to a car.

[KrazyEd]

As an FX owner, I have removed one battery.
Putting single battery in both front and rear
location just to see how it would feel. I have
28 tooth counter sprocket and with both
batteries, it will not wheelie by just rolling
on the throttle. It will with one battery
in back position, probably in front position
as well, but, I can't swear to it.
Prior to my FX, I had a 2012 XU which
only had 3KW pack, so similar to the FX with
one brick, but, it was lower voltage. I could
coax 50 miles out of it but not comfortably.
8 miles of city streets and 12 miles of highway
would have it blinking to be charged. I have never
had one brick in my FX for more than a few minutes
at a time.

[Electric Terry]

With regards to battery capacity and charge time I think Elon Musk has it right: For long distance travel you need to be able to get three hours ride time from 30 minutes charge time. Of course three hours ride time @ 70 mph is 210 miles.

Yes if this is the goal to have with the biggest battery and charger configuration, I think few will be deterred from purchasing based on capability, only cost, although if additional modules can be rented, or dare I say "leased" for 1, 2 or 3 years at a time and then returned or the option to buy after the lease term is over, I think the "fuel" to complain about electrics will be erased. 

Sure one day with solid electrolyte cells and carbon nanotube anodes, 10C charge times, and energy density 2, 3 or 4 times what it is today, designing "how" to fit more batteries on the bike wont be necessary by any means.  But meeting all those criteria could still be 10-20 years out, we know the world is pushing for that to happen from the design of every mobile device and laptop so without question it is on the way, but why not let it happen today?

For anyone whose ridden a 900 pound (898 lb wet weight) GL 1800 gold wing, knows its not bad and feels like a bullet going down the freeway, compared to the heaviest Zero SR with 4 brick monolith and powertank is only 458 pounds, or right at half. 

The Gold Wing has an additional 440 pounds on it.  I'm simply suggesting being able to carry an additional 168 pounds (4 modules) to double the energy when needed for long days of riding.   Even with 4 extra modules the bike would still be almost 300 pounds lighter.  And since the Goldwing is fun to ride in twisties, and will wheelie going up hill by bouncing the throttle, being afraid of extra weight I believe is unjustified.  Just make it so the batteries can be removed to ease everyone's mind who is weight conscious. 

Having the confidence of added range, not necessarily to go farther, but to go the distance you have to go at a faster speed and not worry that today you have unfortunate weather and are going into a 30 mph headwind, the capability for more range and faster charging will be welcome by the sportbike group riders, weekend tourers and trips like from the San Francisco to LA area, LA to Vegas, NY to DC, SF to Tahoe or Yosemite or many other popular weekend trips people want their motorcycle to be able to do.

Point is if the fear is weight, that fear is overrated.  If the fear is added cost, that can be addressed as well.  Perhaps dealers can one day trade in 2.8 modules for 3.3 modules and renting or leasing or buying 2 or 4 2nd hand used 2.8 modules could cost less and of course weigh a little more for the energy but still be an option.  Or the lease idea for batteries.  Or just those who are willing to spend the money for a bike that gives them more confidence.  My point is those concerns can be addressed and solved one way or another.

The key right now is having the option.  That's all.  Doesn't mean anyone has to do it.  But the ability to upgrade any bike with brackets and modules for added range should you ever want it is a comforting feature that I think in itself will help potential buyers on the fence who are concerned about the maximum range their bike could ever have should they need it.  This will eliminate that "what if I ever want to..." question that people ask after test riding a Zero and loving it, but who end up buying a brand new $14k gas bike instead.

As an FX owner, I have removed one battery.
Putting single battery in both front and rear
location just to see how it would feel. I have
28 tooth counter sprocket and with both
batteries, it will not wheelie by just rolling
on the throttle. It will with one battery
in back position, probably in front position
as well, but, I can't swear to it.
Prior to my FX, I had a 2012 XU which
only had 3KW pack, so similar to the FX with
one brick, but, it was lower voltage. I could
coax 50 miles out of it but not comfortably.
8 miles of city streets and 12 miles of highway
would have it blinking to be charged. I have never
had one brick in my FX for more than a few minutes
at a time.

And also good to hear Ed, and so you've taken the time to remove modules and obviously like the weight setup with only one module in the back and the ability to wheelie, but the range potential tradeoff makes it so you'd rather just keep both modules in at all times right?

I'm someone who 2 years ago rode around a 750 pound Zero as a daily rider, and it was rare I ever said "I just have to go to the store, I wish I could easily pop some batteries out without too much trouble", although I know some will want that ability as non negotiable sort of like the dual front disc brake argument.  Whether its really needed or not, if it inspires confidence in the consumer, that is really all that matters.

[MrDude_1]

For anyone whose ridden a 900 pound (898 lb wet weight) GL 1800 gold wing, knows its not bad and feels like a bullet going down the freeway, compared to the heaviest Zero SR with 4 brick monolith and powertank is only 458 pounds, or right at half. 

If anyone doubts Terry's statement, google "Goldwing Yellow Wolf"... The dude just rides away from me down the gap, going faster than I was willing to take a full on superbike.

[KrazyEd]

Yes Terry, that is mostly correct.
I can make my 20 mile street / freeway
trip to work using around 30% of the two batteries.
As stated, I could also do it on my 3KW 2012 XU,
so, I am fairly certain that I COULD make the trip
with one battery, Probably HAVE to charge at work.
Now I just do it because I can. If it wasn't such a
pain to switch out the counter sprocket, I would
jut do that. NEXT time I will probably keep the
25 tooth front and go with the High Speed gearing
if desired.

[ultrarnr]

It is very rare to ever see anything about them but Bell Custom Cycles makes the Brutus V9 electric cruiser. You can get it with a 33.7 kWh battery and a claimed range of 210 miles highway, 280 miles city. If you do a search for them you find a few old brief articles about them but never found a real road test of one. It is too bad that BCC doesn't put some effort into advertising and selling them. It certainly isn't unusual for people to ask about an electric cruiser and few know the V9 exists.