Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I was told most electric cars actually have 20% charge left when they read zero.  This is to protect the cells from running completely down causing a condition where the battery might catch fire when charging.  Is this the same for Zero?

In any event, repeatedly running the bike down to an indicated 0% doesn't seem like a good idea to me.  These aren't NiCad batteries (where it WAS a good idea to run them completely down before charging).

Yes, Zero essentially makes a 0-100% SoC range out of 20-80% range of what the cells can take, which eases the chemistry strain over the lifetime.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

OK, I probably do not have a problem with the battery.  The range is still disappointing.

I was reminded in another discussion of something to check: the voltage range reported by your mobile app while the SoC percentage is reported at the maximum you can get and another data point at or below 20%. At 100% in stable condition, your app should report 116V from the battery. This is really what the 0-100% range is calibrated for. The minimum is something more like 92V (guessing from the Farasis data sheet).

If the range didn't match, well, I guess it'd be worth bringing it up just in case it's important.

Also check the maximum cell voltage differential just in case.

I've written this up: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#State_of_Charge

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Has anyone added batteries carried where saddle bags would go? I do not see a product like this on the Zero website.  I would like a pair of battery packs with an enclosure on top that is big enough to store cords and adapters. They should also be wired to the monolith to be integrated as part of the power supply. Two 3.3kw modules would add 50% to my range and improve my options fro recharging.

There's the Power Tank, but it weighs 45 lbs, and the luggage rack is definitely not rated for this and the motorcycle would handle very badly on the side mounts.

Additional batteries would not improve your recharging options - charging rate is determined by what charger is available, so without a better charger, your charging time just gets longer exactly in proportion to your capacity. Except for the 1C-rate limit which would increase if you had a powerful enough set of chargers.

I think a fairing would help, and maybe my bike needs lubrication; it does squeak a lot.

A windscreen will help for sure: I'd expect 10-15% benefit from the OEM Touring Screen or one of the larger screens some of us members have custom installed and tuned.

Your bike squeaks? How many miles does it have? Maybe your bearings are going; if they are hot to the touch after an aggressive ride, they might explain range loss but maybe not enough.

[bikerscooby]

I did a range experiment this weekend going from Pasadena, CA to Palm Springs, CA, about 110 miles each way, on a base 2016 Zero SR.  Outbound and at night the cooler weather and wind took a toll on range.  I was on ECO mode the whole time.  I was down to 74% at Upland and stopped for a while to charge up to about 85%, then stopped again at Morongo at 15%, charged up to 25%, and made it into downtown PS at 0% with it still running ok at low speed until I got it to a charger.
On the way back in the daytime, it was still windy and started with 100% but only made it to Fontana before it was at 0% again.  Charged up to 44% and kept going again but it slowed down to 40mph on the freeway at 5% on a slight hill coming up to Irwindale and had to stop again to charge.  With less than 10 miles to home, I only charged to 12% and hoped that would make it home, but it again slowed down when it got to 5% so I got off the freeway and went on side streets to get almost home, at that point going 15mph at 2% left, then it just stopped and the green light was blinking.  I had to push it 4 blocks to get home but I made it.  It is light and not hard to push, but now I know what happens when it goes dead and about how much % is needed to get somewhere.

It does seem that I'm getting less range than advertised.  Normally I just use this in town in custom mode (fast) without range issues, but I was expecting it to go further on a full charge.

[Electric Terry]

I did a range experiment this weekend going from Pasadena, CA to Palm Springs, CA, about 110 miles each way, on a base 2016 Zero SR.  Outbound and at night the cooler weather and wind took a toll on range.  I was on ECO mode the whole time.  I was down to 74% at Upland and stopped for a while to charge up to about 85%, then stopped again at Morongo at 15%, charged up to 25%, and made it into downtown PS at 0% with it still running ok at low speed until I got it to a charger.
On the way back in the daytime, it was still windy and started with 100% but only made it to Fontana before it was at 0% again.  Charged up to 44% and kept going again but it slowed down to 40mph on the freeway at 5% on a slight hill coming up to Irwindale and had to stop again to charge.  With less than 10 miles to home, I only charged to 12% and hoped that would make it home, but it again slowed down when it got to 5% so I got off the freeway and went on side streets to get almost home, at that point going 15mph at 2% left, then it just stopped and the green light was blinking.  I had to push it 4 blocks to get home but I made it.  It is light and not hard to push, but now I know what happens when it goes dead and about how much % is needed to get somewhere.

It does seem that I'm getting less range than advertised.  Normally I just use this in town in custom mode (fast) without range issues, but I was expecting it to go further on a full charge.

Advertised highway range numbers are performed with the rider in a full tuck (like you see all racers ride on TV).  So if you ride on the highway fully upright, or halfway, or only in a tuck part of the time, your range numbers might be 15-30% less depending on your preferred riding position.  To get the best range, lay down flat on the plastic tank.  Before I got my dog, I used to slide back on the passenger seat, put my feet on the passenger pegs, and rest the chin of my helmet in the space between the handlebars and the tank to get as low as possible.  But for long distance riding, unless you like a racer who can sit like this for hours, this can be a little uncomfortable for some.  I didn't mind the position for long rides, but I couldn't see my mirrors and so preferred to ride upright for that reason.  Now I carry a dog on my tank (www.facebook.com/ChargerTheDog) so just decided to use fast charging to be able to do long distance days.  Some days 500 miles or more.

For instance in Upland you could charge to full in about 20 minutes.  Visit Hollywood Electrics in West Hollywood and ask them about fast charging options.  If you live in Pasadena you have about 4500 fast charge locations within 100 mile radius of you.  But to use them you need the level 2 electric car charging socket called the J1772.  Hollywood Electrics can get you everything you need and you'll never have to "push it" to 0% ever again lol.  Just plug in and fast charge.

[bikerscooby]

For instance in Upland you could charge to full in about 20 minutes. 

Using what?  Even with the Charge Tank it would probably take 1-2 hours to charge at Level 2, wouldn't it?  I have the adapter to use the Level 2 charging cord on the regular side port but of course that doesn't increase charging speed at all, so 20 minutes gets me about 4% charge.

And I was in the full tucked position on most of that trip.  But that's a hard trip with lots of wind and elevation changes so I didn't expect to get maximum range in any case on that route.

[Shadow]

For instance in Upland you could charge to full in about 20 minutes. 

Using what?  Even with the Charge Tank it would probably take 1-2 hours to charge at Level 2, wouldn't it?...

An 11kW/hour battery system rated for 5 Constant (5C) rate of charge would safely take on 55kW and be done charging in about 15 minutes to 85% state of charge;  Provided you had a source of power (Upland has this much power?) and the charging electronics (Hollywood Electrics offers this?), and further your pack could safely dissipate the rise in heat from the process.

Did I infer that correctly?

[Electric Terry]

bikerscooby said his first charge stop was in Upland from Pasadena.  About 30 miles away.  If he had a supercharger, and used the onboard, to charge at about 11 kW he could charge back to almost full (where it was reducing current where it doesn't make sense to wait any longer) in 20 minutes or actually a little less. maybe 18 1/2 minutes.

[bikerscooby]

For instance in Upland you could charge to full in about 20 minutes. 

Using what?  Even with the Charge Tank it would probably take 1-2 hours to charge at Level 2, wouldn't it?...

An 11kW/hour battery system rated for 5 Constant (5C) rate of charge would safely take on 55kW and be done charging in about 15 minutes to 85% state of charge;  Provided you had a source of power (Upland has this much power?) and the charging electronics (Hollywood Electrics offers this?), and further your pack could safely dissipate the rise in heat from the process.

Did I infer that correctly?

Well you are assuming there is a supercharger available for the 2016 Zero SR, which is not really true except for some experimental DigiNow units that aren't being sold now and maybe some other extremely expensive and heavy homemade rigs.  Even with those, I don't know of a setup or a charging station that would provide 55kW in 15 minutes to a Zero, unless you have something that works with those Tesla stations (do tell!).

I stopped at Hollywood Electrics yesterday and they have 2 options... the Charge Tank and the external charger (or 2), which would help a lot but even with those it would take over an hour to get from 5% to 80% after riding from (for example) Palm Springs to Fontana (that's as far as I made it last time on the way back).

[markmaxwell]

I have not looked at this topic for a while. Just thought I would mention my latest range focused adventure. I rode 43 miles to Paradise Valley Cafe near Anza, California. It was some state highways at 55mph and some mountain twisties. the wind was mostly at my back going up in elevation about 3,000 feet. I intended to recharge while I had lunch at the cafe. There would only be a wall outlet and I would need to carry charge cords in a back pack for any other options, so I did not bring anything other than a 10' 14AWG 110v power cord. (I recently purchased it on Amazon for $10.72) It fits nicely in the tube where the swing arm pivots on my 2016 DS13. Unfortunately the restaurant was closed. I could not refuel myself or the motorcycle. The battery was right at 50%, and my experience has been that headwinds suck more power than hills. I stopped at a Chevron station, and they agreed to let me plug in while I had a cup of coffee and a snack.  It took about a half hour to build back to 50% from the 46% I was at. [Luckily I enjoyed a conversation with three Brits on Triumphs who were spending four months traveling from NYC to Miami via Seattle and San Diego.] I did take a slower back road home and was at 10% power when I arrived. That was 50% in 43 miles going out, and 44% in 47 miles heading back. The difference in speed explains the difference in range, but going slow is dangerous!

[Kocho]

Another data point from today on my '15 SR without power tank, with large windscreen, so no tucking at all, which I think is worse at these speeds than no windscreen with full tucking. Was pretty windy, with headwinds for part of the trip, maybe 10-15 miles of it, so that decreased range noticeably during that leg of the trip. I'm 200lb before gear, and with cool weather gear and helmet today, plus large 55L Maxia case with 15lb in it, the bike was probably carrying 230lb at least. Plus I'm tall at 6'4" with size 15 boots, so offer some extra resistance even with a windscreen... Temp was 50F in the morning, 60F on the return, battery was probably at 60-70F when I started the trip.

Drove 62 miles, let's say at a minimum 55 of them highway-only, pretty much all the time between 65mph and 80mph with frequent but not constant brisk acceleration for passing. Hard to tell the "average" speed, but seemed like 75mph was what I was seeing most of the time.

Started with 100%, just unplugged after overnight charging, ended with 10% on display and in the app. It was a round-trip, with 3 hours break half-way through, but without recharging.

I think this is consistent with the "official" range estimates from Zero.

I noticed reduced power and limited speed down to similar to Eco mode levels around 14% SoC.

And 7-10mv difference b/w cells immediately after the trip, before I shut the bike down.

[Skidz]

Few days back I emptied the zf13 battery of my DSR by doing my commute at 130km/h whenever possible on the way in, and by going a few extra km's at 130km/h on the way back. Trip distance came in at 126km, temps where in the 10C range both ways, started at 100% SOC and ended up with 0% SOC. The bike started slowing down at around 6% SOC, but still went to 130km/h up to 2% SOC, after which my highway leg ended. I rode about 5km's through urban area at speeds varying between 70km/h and 30km/h, emptying the last 2%.
Funny though that although the battery said 0%, the range estimating still gave me 5 km's

[Skidz]

What strikes me about it though is that the average comes at 75Wh/km, and with 12064Wh in the battery that amounts to 160km range?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Few days back I emptied the zf13 battery of my DSR by doing my commute at 130km/h whenever possible on the way in, and by going a few extra km's at 130km/h on the way back. Trip distance came in at 126km, temps where in the 10C range both ways, started at 100% SOC and ended up with 0% SOC. The bike started slowing down at around 6% SOC, but still went to 130km/h up to 2% SOC, after which my highway leg ended. I rode about 5km's through urban area at speeds varying between 70km/h and 30km/h, emptying the last 2%.
Funny though that although the battery said 0%, the range estimating still gave me 5 km's

What strikes me about it though is that the average comes at 75Wh/km, and with 12064Wh in the battery that amounts to 160km range?

This adds up to me; after doing unit conversion, I see that you basically got 80 miles of range by running at 80mph "whenever possible" which is hard to interpret.

FWIW the Wh/mi or Wh/km readings are about typically low by 10-20%, and I'm trying to understand that deviation. It seems that more even-handed use of the throttle reduces the deviation, at least, and I think the rest has to do with how the calculations are made from measurements for each indication. In any case, if you did use that rate (real instead of indicated), you would definitely get 100 miles per charge, which is something I've accomplished a number of times (with aero windscreen tuning and throttle control).

My best range on a DSR was about 115 miles projected; I still need to try a marathon slow day ride to get the "city" range or perhaps better.

[NEW2elec]

A saw an older video from Energica where they talk about their BMS calculated voltage like every second so it was supposed to give the rider the best SOC reading and range estimate possible.  That comes with the $38000 price.

Oh and by the way Skids where did you get your bypass pin tag key fob?