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[alexanderfoti]

These guys have seen (and blown) the 100A fuse. No clear picture of the markings though. Just that it has M6 eye connections and that it is shrink wrapped.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=507362&postcount=25#/forumsite/20977/topics/124073?page=3&postid=507362

Looks like it might be a midi fuse - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-100-amp-MIDI-FUSE-High-Current-100a-Blue-We-stock-all-sizes-and-Fuse-Holder-/121209181323

So, why not replacing it for a 125/150A fuse as the DigiNow chargers charge at higher amps as well?

What is the limitation here ,is it the wiring, the connector, or something else?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

There's no answer I've heard on what limits that circuit. I know that the 2013 circuit was not rated for it so the CHAdeMO install kit had another circuit added, but 2013 was rated for 30A.

Try not to melt your bike, I guess.

[Erasmo]

I wouldn't recommend it, If you want to charge at more than 70A charge through the controller.

[remmie]

The aux connector (anderson sbs75x) has a 110 amp rating.
So that's probably why the 100A fuse is there.

Also the wire cross section is probably designed for that same 100A. The controller wire is much thicker to be able to withstand 660 Amps.

[alexanderfoti]

Makes sense.

Im going to pull it apart at some point and get see whats what around the aux charging socket.

[alexanderfoti]

further thoughts.

With a Type 2 Menenkes conenctor set at 7.2KW, I can use many charging points.

However, onboard, plus 4 Eltek flatpack2 he's = 9.3kw.

Can I wire 2 flatpacks in parallel and then another small power supply in series to make up 7kw?

[remmie]

Some more info when you to play with the flatpacks.
I used this information on my flatpack charger to limit the output current to be able to use the charger on "less potent power outlets"  like for example on a camping ground.
Without the current limiting the rectifier draws 1800 + 2000 Watt's = 3600 Watt and that's about 16 Amps on 230 Volts. Many camping grounds or even regular outlets with other appliances on the circuit would not be able to handle that. Plus you have to have the bike on to engage the contactor.

With the following information I can set the current limit on the flatpack rectifiers to any thing i want. I've chosen to switch between current limits of 10A, 20A, 30A and 40A.
This way i can use the onboard charger (1300Watt) only on 6A circuit (onboard charger at 230 Volts draws 6A)
I can use the onboard charger + flatpacks on 10A charge current for a total of 2300 Watts on a 10A circuit
I can use the onboard charger + flatpacks on 20A charge current for a total of 3500 Watts on a 16A circuit
This is all for single phase applications.

With the mennekes type 2 connector I can set the flatpack charger to 40A (1800+2000 Watt) and use the onboard charger as well for 5kW of charging power (1800+2000+1300)
For even faster charging on the type 2 mennekes I can connect the second pair of flatpacks (2x2000W) to reach 9.1 kW.

I also shared this info on the endless-sphere forum in the topic with the flatpack rectifiers

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=71139&p=1204856#p1204856

Some more info about the Flatpack communication protocol. This works for both a Flatpack 2 HE and a Flatpack S

0x05014400
During walk-in (the period where the voltage builds up slowly) the rectifier periodically (every 10 seconds or so) sends out the following message when it's not logged in :
05014400 is the identifier and the serial number is the message followed by 00 00
Walk in can be chosen to be either 5 seconds long or 60 seconds long. For charging my Zero I have opted for the 60 second walkin. It helps current spike when plugging in.

So in case of of my rectifier (ser nr 141471110820) it is
0x05014400 0x14 0x14 0x71 0x11 0x08 0x20 0x00 0x00 (all HEX numbers)

If you respond ONCE with 0x05004804 0x14 0x14 0x71 0x11 0x08 0x20 0x00 0x00 (serial number + 2 bytes 00) the rectifier sends out exactly 64 messages with the status every 0,2 seconds (or so) before reverting to sending 0x05014400 again every 10 seconds without status messages. If you send the same 0x05004804 again before those 64 messages are up, the rectifier sends out another 64 messages. So in summary, if you send the response command at least every 10 seconds the rectifier stays logged in and keeps sending status messages.

the status messages are (like described earlier in the thread) :
0x05014010 AA BB CC DD EE FF GG HH where
AA is the intake temperature in Celcius
BB is the output current Low Byte
CC is the output current High Byte. the current high and low byte combined give the current in deci amps (* 0.1 Amp)
DD is the output voltage Low byte
EE is the output voltage High Byte. the voltage high and low byte combined give the voltage in centivolts (* 0.01 Volt)
FF is the input voltage Low Byte
GG is the input voltage High Byte. the input voltage high and low byte combined gives the AC input voltage in volts
HH is the output temperature in Celcius

after the walk in period is reached the status messages change to :
0x05014004 AA BB CC DD EE FF GG HH when the rectifier is in normal (Constant voltage) mode
0x05014008 AA BB CC DD EE FF GG HH when the rectifier is in Constant Current mode (current-limiting)
0x0501400C AA BB CC DD EE FF GG HH when the input voltage is low (mains plug pulled)

however, during this stage every 10th message is different. The rectifier sends out a message :
0x0500NNPP 1B JJ KK LL MM NN PP 00
NN and PP are the last 2 bytes of the serial number. This has stumped me during diagnostics. I had my code perfect for 1 rectifier and the other was different. Unit i had the messages from 3 rectifiers and i saw the common link
The 1B as the first byte of the message is sometimes a 1C (don't know why).
I believe this is a request from the rectifier to keep being "logged in"


So in short
when the identifier starts with 0x0500 you have to reply with serial number which is containd in the message (do keep in mind that with a 0x05004400 the serial number is the first 6 bytes of the message and with 0x0500NNPP the serial number is the second till the seventh byte (shifted 1 byte)

when the identifier starts with 0x0501 it's a status message (and even the identifier shows different statuses)

All the above is just to keep being logged in and receive status messages.
There are (as explained earlier in the thread also ways to control the rectifier)

If it has send a message 0x05004400 or 0x0500NNPP (NNPP last 2 bytes of serial number) you can respond with a message to alter the voltage and even the maximum current setting.
First you have to send a response 0x05004804 with the serial number as message (just to keep it logged in)
Second you send the message
0x05FF4004 AA BB CC DD EE FF GG HH where
AA is the max current Low Byte
BB is the max current High Byte
CC is the voltage measured Low Byte (set it the same as the desired voltage Low byte)
DD is the voltage measured High Byte (set it the same as the desired voltage High byte)
EE is the desired voltage Low byte
FF is the desired voltage High byte
GG is the over voltage protection Low byte
HH is the over voltage protection High byte

example
If i send 0x05FF4004 0x64 0x00 0x44 0x16 0x44 0x16 0x3E 0x17
it sets the max current to 10.0 amps (0064 in HEX is 100 is 10.0 Amps)
it sets the voltage output to 57.0 Volts (1644 in Hex is 5700 is 57.00 Volts)
it sets the over voltage protection limit to 59.5 Volt (173E in Hex is 5950 is 59.50 Volts)

I Think the rectifier remembers this setting as long as it's logged in, so in theory you would only have to send this command once (but keep sending the log in command periodically (0x05004804 with the serial number)

The 0x05FF4004 is for a 5 second walk in period (after 5 seconds the output voltage reaches it's target voltage)
if you substitute this with 0x05FF4005 (last 4 change to a 5) the walk in period will be 60 seconds. This is stored in non volatile memory and is active from that moment on every time you switch on the rectifier.

I send the command for the max current and output voltage every time I see a log in request (identifier starts with 0x0500) As said this probably is not necessary but I do switch the canbus to another rectifier sometimes so I have to send it more often.

Also keep in mind that if the rectifier loses contact with the controller (i.e. you don't send any answers) the rectifier will revert to it's original settings (default voltage and maximum current)

For those interested I have changed the code on my arduino as follows. It has automatic serial number detection and status message decoding. I've optimised it as far as possible with my average programming skills but is does the job I want it to do. It has an LCD for showing the message (2x16 characters), it shows any unknown identifier and message (which i have not seen yet), and has a pushbutton to control the maximum current. It sets it initially to 10.0 amps and with every push of the button it adds another 10 Amps. After it has reached 40 Amps and you push the button again it reverts back to 10.0 Amps. The display shows the chosen current output.

Happy Tinkering All



 

[remmie]

And here's the code for the arduino which controls the flatpack

// from rectifier : (requests for logins)
// 05014400 + ser nr + 00 00 from rectifier  : HELLOOW where are you ! rectifier sends 05014400 and 6 bytes serial number and followed by 00 00 (login request)
// 0500xxyy + 1B + ser nr + 00 is send during normal voltage every second. xxyy is the last 2 bytes from the serial number
// after either of these send 05004804 every 5 seconds ! to keep logged in. rectifier does not send login requests so after 10 second the numbers stop until 05014400 is sent
// from rectifier : (status messages)
// 0501400C + status data : walkin and below 43 volts (error) and during walk-out (input voltage low)
// 05014010 + status data : walkin busy
// 05014004 + status data : normal voltage reached
// 05014008 + status data : current-limiting active

// send TO rectifier (act as controller)
// 05004804 + ser nr + 00 00 from controller : send 05004804 and 6 bytes ser number followed by 00 00
// 05FF4004 controller sends current and voltage limits (last 4 is 5 sec walk-in, for 60 second walk-in use 05FF4005)
// 05FF4005 controller sends current and voltage limits (last 5 is 60 sec walk-in, for 5 second walk-in use 05FF4004)

#include <mcp_can.h>
#include <mcp_can_dfs.h>
#include <SPI.h>
#include <LiquidCrystal.h>

const int SPI_CS_PIN = 10;
word maxcurrent = 0x64;                                                              // set initial maxcurrent to 10A output
unsigned char len = 0;
unsigned char serialnr[8];
int msgreceived;
MCP_CAN CAN(SPI_CS_PIN);                                                             // Set CS pin for CANBUS shield
LiquidCrystal lcd(1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, ;                                              // LiquidCrystal(rs, rw, enable, d4, d5, d6, d7)  or LiquidCrystal(rs, enable, d4, d5, d6, d7)

void setup()                                                                         // Initialisation routine
{
 pinMode(A0, INPUT);                                                                 // Set pin A0 to input (pushbutton)
 digitalWrite(A0, HIGH);                                                             // activate pull-up on A0
 pinMode(9, OUTPUT);                                                                 // Set pin 9 to output (backlight of the LCD)
 digitalWrite(9, HIGH);                                                              // Backlight enable
  lcd.begin(16, 2);                                                                  // splash screen on LCD
  lcd.print("Flatpack Charger");
  lcd.setCursor(0, 1);
  lcd.print("Made by RHO");
   
START_INIT:

    if(CAN_OK == CAN.begin(CAN_125KBPS))                                              // init can bus : baudrate = 125k !!
    {
        lcd.setCursor(0,0);
        lcd.print("CAN BUS init OK!");
        delay(100);
    }
    else
    {
        lcd.setCursor(0,0);
        lcd.print("CAN BUS init Fail");
        lcd.setCursor(0,1);
        lcd.print("Init CAN BUS again");
        delay(100);
        goto START_INIT;
    }
    lcd.clear();
}

void loop()                                                                           // main program (LOOP)
  {
   
  unsigned char buf[8] ;
  if(CAN_MSGAVAIL == CAN.checkReceive())                                              // check if data coming
    {
        CAN.readMsgBuf(&len, buf);                                                    // read data,  len: data length, buf: data buf
        INT32U canId = CAN.getCanId();                                                // read the CAN Id


    if(canId==0x05014400)                                                             //this is the request from the Flatpack rectifier during walk-in (start-up) or normal operation when no log-in response has been received for a while
       {
         for(int i = 0; i<8; i++)                                                 
         {
         serialnr=buf;                                                          // transfer the message buffer to the serial number variable
         }
         CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05004804, 1, 8, serialnr);                                  //send message to log in (DO NOT ASSIGN AN ID use 00)
         msgreceived++;                                                               // increase the variable "msgreceived"
         unsigned char stmp7[8] = {lowByte(maxcurrent), highByte(maxcurrent), 0x44, 0x16, 0x44, 0x16, 0x3E, 0x17};    // set rectifier to maxcurrent 57,0V (16 44) and OVP to 59.5V (17 3E) qnd long walk-in 4005 or short walk in 4004
         CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05FF4005, 1, 8, stmp7);                                                                     //(last 4 in header is for 5 sec walkin, 5 is for 60 second walkin)
       }

   
    else if(canId==(0x05000000+256*buf[5]+buf[6]))                                    //if CANID = 0500xxyy where xxyy the last 2 digits of the serial nr
      {
        for(int i = 0; i<6; i++)                                                 
          {
            serialnr=buf[i+1];                                                     // transfer the buffer to the serial number variable (neccesary when switching the CAN-bus to another rectifier while on)
          }
        unsigned char serialnr[8] = {buf[1], buf[2], buf[3], buf[4], buf[5], buf[6], 0x00, 0x00};                     //this is the serial number of the unit which is covered in the request (unit announces its serial number)
        CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05004804, 1, 8, serialnr);                                                                   //send message to log in (DO NOT ASSIGN AN ID) use 00
        msgreceived++;
        unsigned char stmp7[8] = {lowByte(maxcurrent), highByte(maxcurrent), 0x44, 0x16, 0x44, 0x16, 0x3E, 0x17};     // set rectifier to maxcurrent 57,0V (16 44) and OVP to 59.5V (17 3E) qnd long walk-in 4005 or short walk in 4004
        CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05FF4005, 1, 8, stmp7);                                                                      //(last 4 in header is for 5 sec walkin, 5 is for 60 second walkin)
      }


    else if((canId==0x05014004)or(canId==0x05014008)or(canId==0x05014010)or(canId=0x0501400C))                        // these are the status messages (05014004 is not current-limiting, 05014008 is current limiting 05014010 = busy with walkin, 0501400C in input voltage low)
      { 
           msgreceived++;                                                                                             // record number of messages received
           if(msgreceived>40)                                                                                     
            {
             msgreceived=0;
             CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05004804, 1, 8, serialnr);                                                              //send message to log in every 40 messages (DO NOT USE ID NR, USE 00) this because during walk-in the 0500xxyy is not send and the rectifier "logs out" because of no received log-in messages from controller
             msgreceived++;
            }
           
           lcd.setCursor(0, 0);                                                        //show data on the LCD screen 0x050140yy 0xAA 0xBB 0xCC 0xDD 0xEE 0xFF 0xGG 0xHH
           lcd.print("T=");
           lcd.print(buf[0]);                                                          // 0xAA = Temperature in
           lcd.print("/"); 
           lcd.print(buf[7]);                                                          // 0xHH = Temperature out
           lcd.print("   ");
           lcd.setCursor(8,0);
           lcd.print("I=");
           lcd.print(buf[2]*256*0.1+buf[1]*0.1);                                       // 0xBB = Current Low Byte, 0xCC = Current High byte. Current in deciAmps (*0.1 Amps)
           lcd.print("  ");
             
           lcd.setCursor(8,1);
           lcd.print("Vo=");
           lcd.print(buf[4]*256*0.01+buf[3]*0.01);                                     // 0xDD = Voltage out Low Byte, oxEE = Voltage out High Byte. Voltgae in centivolts (*0.01 Volt)
           lcd.print("  ");
                     
           lcd.setCursor(0,1);
           lcd.print("Vi=");         
           lcd.print(256*buf[6]+buf[5]);                                               // 0xFF = Voltage in Low byte, 0xGG = Voltage in High byte. Voltage in Volts (because voltage is below 255 Volts, high byte is always 0)
           lcd.print("  ");
           
           if((digitalRead(A0)==0))                                                    //read digital pin Analog0 and if it is high (pushbutton is pressed)
             {
             maxcurrent = maxcurrent + 100;                                            // raise maxcurrent with 10 A
             if(maxcurrent > 400)                                                      // to be able to lower the current with one button, if the maxcurrent > 40 the current is reset to 10
               {
               maxcurrent =100;
               }
             digitalWrite(9,HIGH);                                                                                        // switch on the backlight
             CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05004804, 1, 8, serialnr);                                                                  // send message to log in (DO NOT ASSIGN AN ID) use 00
             unsigned char stmp7[8] = {lowByte(maxcurrent), highByte(maxcurrent), 0x44, 0x16, 0x44, 0x16, 0x3E, 0x17};    // set rectifier to maxcurrent 57,0V (16 44) and OVP to 59.5V (17 3E) qnd long walk-in 4005 or short walk in 4004
             CAN.sendMsgBuf(0x05FF4005, 1, 8, stmp7);                                                                     // (last 4 in header is for 5 sec walkin, 5 is for 60 second walkin)
             lcd.setCursor(0, 0);                                                                                         // announce chosen current on LCD
             lcd.print("Current set to  ");
             lcd.setCursor(0, 1);
             lcd.print(maxcurrent*0.1);
             lcd.print(" Amp        ");
             delay(1000);
             }       
      }
    else
      {
        lcd.setCursor(0,0);                                                            // if the canId is unknown
        lcd.print(canId,HEX);                                                          // show the can Id and the message on the LCD
        lcd.setCursor(0,1);
        for(int i = 0; i<len; i++)                                                   
          {
          if( buf < 0x10){ lcd.print("0");} lcd.print(buf,HEX);                  // send a leading zero if only one digit
          }
        delay(1000);                                                                   // show the message for 1 second and then continue
      }
    }
   
  }

/*********************************************************************************************************
  END FILE
*********************************************************************************************************/

[remmie]

further thoughts.

With a Type 2 Menenkes conenctor set at 7.2KW, I can use many charging points.

However, onboard, plus 4 Eltek flatpack2 he's = 9.3kw.

Can I wire 2 flatpacks in parallel and then another small power supply in series to make up 7kw?

Alexander,

I have used 4 flatpacks + onboard charger (=9.1 kW) on several type 2 mennekes stations without any issues. Just try it.
If it's too much you can always disconnect the onboard charger (reduces power to 8 kW) but you would have to have the bike "keyed on"
or use a 16A double pole switch to disconnect one of the pairs of flatpacks to have 5.3 kW of charge power.

And for ultimate control you can use an arduino (or similar or even a computer at home) with a canbus controller and set the flatpacks to any desired charge current (description in my 2 previous posts)

[alexanderfoti]

Thanks for the response, that really is the best way to control them!

In the UK the charging points are mainly 3KW Type 2, or 7KW Type 2, with some 43KW type 2 available as well.

As well, it would be good to carry around 2 x flatpacks so that I can charge from 3 wall sockets. Drawing 20 amps MAX for the eltek through two plug sockets, and then 13 amps from another 3rd socket. Most ring circuits are 36amps here.

Having the arduino switch the current on the flatpacks is the icing on the cake! Thank you very much, I will definitely be building that controller!

[remmie]

Hi Alexander.

I tested and confirmed that just sending the commands 0x05004804 with the serial number message and 0x05FF4004 with the current and voltage settings every 5 seconds is enough to keep the unit in voltage AND current control.

see the thread on endless-sphere  : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=71139

example
So in case of of my rectifier (ser nr 141471110820) it is
0x05014400 0x14 0x14 0x71 0x11 0x08 0x20 0x00 0x00 (all HEX numbers)
0x05FF4004 0x64 0x00 0x44 0x16 0x44 0x16 0x3E 0x17

it sets the max current to 10.0 amps (0064 in HEX is 100 is 10.0 Amps)
it sets the voltage output to 57.0 Volts (1644 in Hex is 5700 is 57.00 Volts)
it sets the over voltage protection limit to 59.5 Volt (173E in Hex is 5950 is 59.50 Volts)

You have to send that message at least every 10 seconds (10 sec is OK, 15 seconds is too long) otherwise the flatpack defaults to maximum current and the default voltage.

I have ordered this little microcontroller board, with voltage regulator (12 to 5V), CAN bus interface and mini USB for programming to see whether this is enough to control the flatpack. The Fan inside the flatpack uses a constant 12V supply. It would be ideal if i can fit that little board INSIDE the flatpack and let it do the voltgae and current control. Even a small button for more current can be added to the board easily.

http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/leonardo-canbus

without connectors it should only be about 33x33 mm and would fit VERY nicely inside the flatpack.

[evtricity]

Thanks remmie for all the work on the Elteks and posting to the various forums.

I've picked up a couple of the Eltek 2000 HEs and have used some of your commands and code to control them - very neat.

How did you ever workout the commands to set the current, voltage, walk-in etc - did you have a Smartpack controller, made some changes and picked up the messages on the CANBUS?

I've found some other inexpensive rectifiers that are CAN controlled but I'm trying to avoid having to buy the controller to find the equivalent walk-in, voltage and current control commands.

Also, the Elteks are designed for a PCB card edge to slide into the various contacts at the back of each rectifier. How did you go about making those connections robust - did you get a simple PCB edge card made or something else?

Thanks

[wijnand71]

@Alexander, How is this project going? I'm reading the posts about the Flatpacks with much interest and want to create a 4-unit Flatpack as you are about to make.
Following note is also a question for me:

Also, the Elteks are designed for a PCB card edge to slide into the various contacts at the back of each rectifier. How did you go about making those connections robust - did you get a simple PCB edge card made or something else?

I assume the Flatpacks are indeed made to slide in a contra connector on the back, how to create a connection for these high amp packs wich won't melt?

[evtricity]

There a couple of guys on the endless sphere forum who have made and are selling pcb edge connectors for the Elteks. Sorry don't have the link handy.

[MrDude_1]

There a couple of guys on the endless sphere forum who have made and are selling pcb edge connectors for the Elteks. Sorry don't have the link handy.

it starts on this page:  https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=71139&start=100