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[Killroy]

Great keyboard racing in this thread   

[Justin Andrews]

Great keyboard racing in this thread   

Unlike my tyres, there is no dust on any part of my keyboard... :p

[laramie LC4]

ah shucks! does this mean i don't get to giggle like a schoolgirl due to the acceleration when riding my bike anymore? darnit, i hate it when that happens....

hehehehehehe!!!!!

laters,

laramie 

[Burton]

A great discussion of this issue is in http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4358.0 . The upshot of the conversation was that perhaps a better unit to discuss would be thrust, which accounts for motor torque as well as overall gear ratio to determine how many pounds of linear force the motor exerts on the pavement, which is what accelerates a bike + rider of a given weight at a certain acceleration.

Thanks Doug, it seems while I was "away" from EMF I missed this great discussion.

How would you measure "thrust" from 0-60? Are we measuring Gforces over time till 60mph? simple 0-60mph in seconds?

I know my first WOT really impressed me coming from a smaller ICE bike. But after a while I got so use to it I question if I am accelerating as hard as I use to till I switch down to ECO mode (which I set up to be 50% of everything including my motor regen) and then I am like ... yeah I was in sport mode (where I have everything set to 100% with a custom level of higher regen)

So I can see where one would say "meh ... it is just like or similar to performance bikes." But if we are making a statement like this I like to see numbers and graphs to back things up. For me torque at wheel seemed important to know but Dyno's are not geared to handle a 0 rpm scenario, and then the other being actual in practice 0-60 times (not running on gas fumes, with warm tires, and an anorexic short rider).

If we were to get really technical i would imagine we would want a machine to do all the accelerating / shifting to show the base performance of a bike before adding a rider / weather / road conditions / etc. 

[MrDude_1]

Why does Mr. Dude need to continually point out the SR isn't a quick bike compared to really fast ICE bikes?

Because it is continuously compared to really fast ICE bikes and declared equal.
I never said I didn't like the bike... but it doesn't meet those claims.

Flexy showed his true colours when he said

this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.

The fella is just a troll, and statements like this just serve to invalidate the rest of his argument.

They make it out like its a monster, when you can just twist and go like a scooter. Its not a monster. You can just twist the throttle and go. Its not going to wheelie up on you. Its not going to break the rear wheel loose (assuming normal dry asphalt conditions of course)
You literally can pin the throttle like a moped. Its faster than a moped, but the bike isnt literbike fast either.

And I wouldn't say I was a troll... I just don't like hyperbolic bullshit that sets up unrealistic expectations.


edit:
I recall lastnight hearing the guy say the same thing, so I skipped around to the end of the video.. this should be at about the right time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU&feature=youtu.be&t=1010

[MostlyBonkers]

I think the SR is a monster if you don't treat it with respect. I've never been thrown off anything as quickly as when I twisted the throttle a little too quickly in the wet on one last summer. Most bikes will give you a bit more warning and time to react, but with all that torque coming instantly the rear spins up quicker than a politician on poppers.

Most modern big bikes have traction control whereas the SR still relies on skill and common sense. I was lacking in both departments that day...

We all know that the SR doesn't have many horses, but the way it delivers that torque means an average rider can put a lot of the bikes out there to shame away from the lights. I think it deserves some respect for that. After all, jet fighters don't have gears or a clutch and they're pretty beastly.

I think what's most impressive is that the SR can do what it does without making a song and a dance about it. No screaming engines (or turbines), no fancy juggling of a clutch and trying to keep the front wheel from pointing to the sky.

I've also found that once I get used to a bike I'll find myself pinning the throttle and feeling it could go quicker. I think the overall enjoyment of riding a bike is the most important thing. Despite coming from a VFR 1200, I find my DS a real joy to ride. That's with less than a third of the horsepower.

Comparing an SR to a scooter is unfair. FX, DS, S or SR: They are all proper motorcycles and handle as such.  They don't need gears because electric motors make them redundant.

If the SR is so capable in it's current modest package, just imagine what's around the corner. It's game over for all but the most exotic ICE bikes in just a few more years.

[Justin Andrews]

Why does Mr. Dude need to continually point out the SR isn't a quick bike compared to really fast ICE bikes?

Because it is continuously compared to really fast ICE bikes and declared equal.
I never said I didn't like the bike... but it doesn't meet those claims.

Flexy showed his true colours when he said

this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.

The fella is just a troll, and statements like this just serve to invalidate the rest of his argument.

They make it out like its a monster, when you can just twist and go like a scooter. Its not a monster. You can just twist the throttle and go. Its not going to wheelie up on you. Its not going to break the rear wheel loose (assuming normal dry asphalt conditions of course)
You literally can pin the throttle like a moped. Its faster than a moped, but the bike isnt literbike fast either.

And I wouldn't say I was a troll... I just don't like hyperbolic bullshit that sets up unrealistic expectations.


edit:
I recall lastnight hearing the guy say the same thing, so I skipped around to the end of the video.. this should be at about the right time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTQeOV5sPU&feature=youtu.be&t=1010

Round my parts calling a motorbike a scooter is *actual* fighting talk, the sort of thing that could start a punch up...
So yeah, you came across as being deliberately insulting, even if you did'nt mean too.

[Eolas]

I know in the six months I've had my SR, I haven't taken my Interceptor out of the garage once... LOVE the SR, and the off-the-line acceleration is wonderful, as is the amount of power at my normal highway speeds (75-85mph usually).

And I put it on "sport" about a week in, and haven't switched since.

[Killroy]

There is a huge advantage to launching a Zero without a clutch and a single speed means that acceleration never drops to zero during a shift change. 

That alone is good for a lot of advantage over a motorcycle with similar power to weight ratio.

A transmission is really just crutch for a ICE with poor practical engine speed range.

[MrDude_1]

There is a huge advantage to launching a Zero without a clutch and a single speed means that acceleration never drops to zero during a shift change. 
That alone is good for a lot of advantage over a motorcycle with similar power to weight ratio.
A transmission is really just crutch for a ICE with poor practical engine speed range.

I would agree with you, if it wasnt for  the fact that every literbike sold today will go faster than a zero without shifting... They all top out well into the 90mph range.

On top of that, acceleration never drops to zero on any motorcycle, as acceleration may lessen while slowly shifting, but it would be very very slow to stop all forward acceleration.

lastly... you dont use the clutch when accelerating and shifting on a modern sportbike. The quickshifter will cut spark for a few milliseconds... this is just long enough for the gear lash to come loose, and let the dogs engage the next gear. You dont touch the clutch, and you dont let off the throttle.


This is one of those perception != reality things... You're comparing something inaccurately, and incorrectly and coming to a poor assumption.
I get annoyed by them in the same way you might be annoyed by some non-EV rider making odd assumptions about charging and range. 


To expand on the a charging analogy, when charging the limit isnt the bike, its the wall followed by the charger.

The limit of riding a performance motorcycle shouldn't be the motorcycle, its the rider. Yes you could spin up the rear, chop throttle and highside, but you could also do that with a 250. Ive seen it happen.



My short highside story:
In the 250,000+ miles I have ridden on the street, I have highsided once from that exact same thing. Slick oil from a recently repaved road, rain, not paying attention, and whoop. wheel spins up, steps out, and while Im trying to ride it out, I just plain run out of steering.. it hit the lock and over I was tossed.
sucked.  sucked worse that it was infront of my work no less. sucked even worse that the hottest cop I have ever seen (seriously, model material) was the one who came to see if I was ok. Sucked even more that I cracked a cover, and had to get a ride home.. sucked even more that it was my daily driver, so I was forced to use other transport until it was repaired...
...but even after all that sucking, not once for a second did I blame the bike, lack of traction control, or desire less power. That was around 28,000 mile mark, and that bike (an 08, CBR1000RR) went on for another 70,000+ miles without any crashy incidents before I sold it.

[MrDude_1]

Round my parts calling a motorbike a scooter is *actual* fighting talk, the sort of thing that could start a punch up...
So yeah, you came across as being deliberately insulting, even if you did'nt mean too.

yeah, I forget that in general motorcycling groups, scooters are looked down upon.
I worked for awhile in a custom vespa shop.. when I think scooters, I dont think of the cheap chinese DUI ride.. I think modded 2-stroke vespas and maxi-scooters and silverwings with mods.  The Silverwing was what I was thinking of when I said "twist and go scooter".. comparing the SR to a 50cc moped would be silly.

Interestingly enough, Vespas use a clutch/gearshift handlebar, and it makes fast modded ones exceptionally hard to launch and shift. lol.

[MostlyBonkers]

So many misunderstandings via the interweb! We all say stuff that goes wrong. Well, I do at least! ;-)

[firepower]

Electric Motorcycles have only a decade of factory evolution and still developing technology and software.
Motorcycles have had over a century of development.
This is the birth of EV and the dying of ICE.

[Killroy]

There is a huge advantage to launching a Zero without a clutch and a single speed means that acceleration never drops to zero during a shift change. 
That alone is good for a lot of advantage over a motorcycle with similar power to weight ratio.
A transmission is really just crutch for a ICE with poor practical engine speed range.

I would agree with you, if it wasnt for  the fact that every literbike sold today will go faster than a zero without shifting... They all top out well into the 90mph range.

On top of that, acceleration never drops to zero on any motorcycle, as acceleration may lessen while slowly shifting, but it would be very very slow to stop all forward acceleration.

lastly... you dont use the clutch when accelerating and shifting on a modern sportbike. The quickshifter will cut spark for a few milliseconds... this is just long enough for the gear lash to come loose, and let the dogs engage the next gear. You dont touch the clutch, and you dont let off the throttle.


This is one of those perception != reality things... You're comparing something inaccurately, and incorrectly and coming to a poor assumption.
I get annoyed by them in the same way you might be annoyed by some non-EV rider making odd assumptions about charging and range. 


To expand on the a charging analogy, when charging the limit isnt the bike, its the wall followed by the charger.

The limit of riding a performance motorcycle shouldn't be the motorcycle, its the rider. Yes you could spin up the rear, chop throttle and highside, but you could also do that with a 250. Ive seen it happen.



My short highside story:
In the 250,000+ miles I have ridden on the street, I have highsided once from that exact same thing. Slick oil from a recently repaved road, rain, not paying attention, and whoop. wheel spins up, steps out, and while Im trying to ride it out, I just plain run out of steering.. it hit the lock and over I was tossed.
sucked.  sucked worse that it was infront of my work no less. sucked even worse that the hottest cop I have ever seen (seriously, model material) was the one who came to see if I was ok. Sucked even more that I cracked a cover, and had to get a ride home.. sucked even more that it was my daily driver, so I was forced to use other transport until it was repaired...
...but even after all that sucking, not once for a second did I blame the bike, lack of traction control, or desire less power. That was around 28,000 mile mark, and that bike (an 08, CBR1000RR) went on for another 70,000+ miles without any crashy incidents before I sold it.

The Zero SR does not have the power to weight ratio of a liter bike and you are confusing speed and acceleration. 

[MrDude_1]

The Zero SR does not have the power to weight ratio of a liter bike and you are confusing speed and acceleration.

You're correct on the first half of that.

Nope on the second half. You're just missing my points.