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[MichaelJohn]

Check it out guys. I really enjoyed this one.

[laramie LC4]

that was funny. having ridden an '16 SR i can attest to it's frightening acceleration. my '16 fx-s will laugh at almost anything on the road, this thing just eats it and spits it back out.

laters,

laramie   

[Kocho]

Entertaining review (that and the one for the DS), but it and the comments for the video show how little most people know about these bikes...

The acceleration is nice on the SR! It takes some getting used to, especially for new-ish riders like me. When I first test-rode the '14 models, I thought the S was quick enough. I did not dare try full throttle back then. SR felt too much for me back then. This year, two years later, I test-rode the DS and felt that accelerating at full throttle was nice but no longer scary and I felt I'd want more soon. I am glad I bought the SR and not the S. I mostly ride the SR on "custom" with 70% torque and that is usually more than enough. But on good roads I lately find 70% a little less than what I'd like, so I have started to switch to "sport" more often now. "Eco" now just feels underwhelming, but I do use it for 2-up city riding where I don't want sudden jolts of power, and I imagine it will be good for wet and slippery conditions too.

Can't wait for my windscreen to arrive - without any protection, the wind is too much and the bike is not fun at speeds over 50mph for more than just a few seconds ...

[xzornixz]

He has the chainsaw sound when accelerating hard too!

[MrDude_1]

just remember:
praise about extreme acceleration on any zero is a sign that the rider has not ridden any performance motorcycles before.

the zero sr has 106 ftlbs of torque and 67hp. with no gears for increasing the torque to the ground at lower speeds.

your basic performance motorcycle has over 100hp, and MORE torque to the wheel for any given speed due to gearing. Your higher end performance bike (in performance, not price) make more power everywhere, just staying in one gear like the zero. (most literbikes top out in first gear at 90mph... and will lift the front at any speed in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd without effort)


the magic to the zero is that it is not intimidating... so riders that would never ride a performance bike, ride this.



once you get used to fast bikes.. the zero is slow.  FUN... but slow.

[Burton]

MrDude,

Could you provide me with a dyno chart of say a "performance" motorcycle showing more torque at the wheel than an SR going 0-60? At what speed does the torque on these motorcycles peak for each gear assuming you are doing a dyno pull in say 3rd gear from 0mph?

I did look up 0-60 times for bikes under 3 seconds and got a big list, with a 2006 Suzuki GSX-R1000 at the top mind you, but upon going to different forums for the gsxr most people said 3 seconds if your lucky. Some even posted up magazines showing it was 3.1 or 3.2 ... the claimed in the list I saw was 2.35. (linked)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_motorcycles_by_acceleration

[Doug S]

Burton, we do have to remember that torque multiplication does play a role in the performance of any vehicle. "Torque multiplication" is a real thing, not something somebody made up, and is in fact the reason transmissions and gearboxes exist at all.

Yes, the 106 ft-lbs of torque the SR and DSR put up is a HUGE number, greater than all but a few of the most powerful bikes, but the issue is clouded by gearing considerations. It's very possible some of the more powerful bikes put more torque on the pavement than our bikes do because they're geared lower....which of course they can do because of their transmissions.

A great discussion of this issue is in http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4358.0 . The upshot of the conversation was that perhaps a better unit to discuss would be thrust, which accounts for motor torque as well as overall gear ratio to determine how many pounds of linear force the motor exerts on the pavement, which is what accelerates a bike + rider of a given weight at a certain acceleration.

[MrDude_1]

Doug beat me to it.

In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.
If you could measure the torque from the rear tire to the ground from zero to 85mph, you would see that a literbike would be in 1st gear with RPM to spare, going through huge torque multiplication, while the zero would be amp limited at the very slow RPM, and then full power as it gets up to speed... and you would also see that a 600cc sportbike puts out similar torque to the literbike  for brief windows, and has to shift once.

Before you can say "literbike power" and truely be comparable to an actual 1000cc motorcycle, you have to remember that they can lift the front wheel off the ground in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear.... and that 1st gear goes into the 90s (mph), second gear goes into the low 100s, and 3rd into the 110s...    so that means that at any given reasonable speed, the limit of acceleration is traction or the center of gravity of the bike (wheelie)  NOT motor power.


Its unfortunate that people forget this, because it sets up disappointment for people like me. I love EVs. I know they CAN be the future.. but when you try to portray a vehicle as powerful as another, only to come up drastically short, it sets up disappointment. Its a quick bike... but its not a VERY quick bike. Its an easy bike to ride, but if you're an accomplished ICE rider already that doesnt make it quicker.... so someone that fears pinning a 600cc sportbike because anything above 8k RPM (about half way) scares them, the zero may seem faster because its not intimidating. But if you can clutch up a literbike or 500cc twostroke without fear, you feel disappointment when this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.

[domingo3]

Does anyone have an idea of a good way to compare 0-60 times that are routinely achievable?  I know many literbikes can get up to 60 in under 3 seconds, but that involves a professional rider revving the engine to the moon and dumping the clutch - not something that would be good for the longevity of the bike.  In contrast, I assume that you can do stop light drag racing on an SR all day, every day without much worry aside from eating tires.

[mrwilsn]

In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.
If you could measure the torque from the rear tire to the ground from zero to 85mph, you would see that a literbike would be in 1st gear with RPM to spare, going through huge torque multiplication, while the zero would be amp limited at the very slow RPM, and then full power as it gets up to speed... and you would also see that a 600cc sportbike puts out similar torque to the literbike  for brief windows, and has to shift once.
Before you can say "literbike power" and truely be comparable to an actual 1000cc motorcycle, you have to remember that they can lift the front wheel off the ground in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear.... and that 1st gear goes into the 90s (mph), second gear goes into the low 100s, and 3rd into the 110s...    so that means that at any given reasonable speed, the limit of acceleration is traction or the center of gravity of the bike (wheelie)  NOT motor power.
Its unfortunate that people forget this, because it sets up disappointment for people like me. I love EVs. I know they CAN be the future.. but when you try to portray a vehicle as powerful as another, only to come up drastically short, it sets up disappointment. Its a quick bike... but its not a VERY quick bike. Its an easy bike to ride, but if you're an accomplished ICE rider already that doesnt make it quicker.... so someone that fears pinning a 600cc sportbike because anything above 8k RPM (about half way) scares them, the zero may seem faster because its not intimidating. But if you can clutch up a literbike or 500cc twostroke without fear, you feel disappointment when this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.

According to Zero's website the Zero SR makes 321 ft-lbs at the wheel...EV's get torque multiplication too.  Torque isn't the problem it's the 6K RPM limit....liter bikes go to like 14K RPM.

A Zero SR can beat a 600cc up to the Zero's speed limit.  A Zero SR can beat a liter bike off the line but a skilled rider can over take the Zero quickly.  The only reason a Zero SR will disappoint ANYONE is if they judge it based on the ability to lift the front wheel and ability to go over 105 mph (i.e. not street legal speeds).  Emphasis on SKILL of the ICE rider...the end of this video makes the point.



A skilled rider on a 600cc track bike might be able to beat a Zero SR....but it could be anyone riding the Zero, not much skill required.

[Doug S]

I feel a little bit obligated to respond to MrDude's post.

In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.

Yeah, it matters at least a little. Because the Zero motor puts out 106 ft-lbs of raw torque, they're able to achieve pretty damn impressive acceleration with only a single gear, which provides 100+ mph top speed. The single gear, combined with the fact that electric motors are perfectly happy at 0 rpm, means you don't have to have a clutch, either. All told, this allows for lower weight, less complexity, lower cost, and reduced maintenance. These are not insignificant factors. So....yeah, the "fixed gear" crowd wins this argument, in my opinion, provided you can pull it off. The Zero does.

But I'm not going to try to dispel MrDude's disappointment. It's real. He saw a number, recognized it as more important than horsepower, and was pretty much fooled by the torque multiplication factor. But that's not the only reason I love my bike. I love my bike because it works for me. It gets me to work and back with energy to spare, and DAMN I have fun doing so.

I'd just point out what these bikes were created for. Eco-friendliness, utility, low overall operating cost, and fun, which includes rider responsiveness, torque and horsepower. You need to decide which bikes satisfies you the most.

[MrDude_1]

I feel a little bit obligated to respond to MrDude's post.

In a nutshell, it doesnt matter if they make 106ftlbs of torque at the crank or not... they have a transmission that multiplies their torque.

Yeah, it matters at least a little. Because the Zero motor puts out 106 ft-lbs of raw torque, they're able to achieve pretty damn impressive acceleration with only a single gear, which provides 100+ mph top speed. The single gear, combined with the fact that electric motors are perfectly happy at 0 rpm, means you don't have to have a clutch, either. All told, this allows for lower weight, less complexity, lower cost, and reduced maintenance. These are not insignificant factors. So....yeah, the "fixed gear" crowd wins this argument, in my opinion, provided you can pull it off. The Zero does.

But I'm not going to try to dispel MrDude's disappointment. It's real. He saw a number, recognized it as more important than horsepower, and was pretty much fooled by the torque multiplication factor. But that's not the only reason I love my bike. I love my bike because it works for me. It gets me to work and back with energy to spare, and DAMN I have fun doing so.

I'd just point out what these bikes were created for. Eco-friendliness, utility, low overall operating cost, and fun, which includes rider responsiveness, torque and horsepower. You need to decide which bikes satisfies you the most.

The fixed gear myth gets dispelled when you look at the gearing and rpm limits of a literbike.
It's geared from zero mph to over the limit of the zeroshop max speed.... and while it make no torque at zero rpm, you pull away at 1200rpm (Idle) or higher... with the clutch at any given time I have access to over 100% of the motors max torque or power. (Flywheel inertia makes it over 100 for shock loading)

Saying that at any speed the literbikend has less power, is incorrect.

[MrDude_1]

To regear a SR to match a literbike, you would be limited to 40mph max speed.
Remember, the have a 14k rpm redline. The zero has 6k  (or 6.5, I forget)

[MichaelJohn]

Why does Mr. Dude need to continually point out the SR isn't a quick bike compared to really fast ICE bikes? I have ridden some powerful bikes and I find that the midrange acceleration on the SR is still quite impressive. About a month ago I test rode a BMW S1000XR. The engine on that bike is a detuned version of the S1000RR which is a 200 HP world beater. The XR has only 160 HP but it has more torque so it's still very, very quick. It's true that the SR can't compete above 75 or so but say 30-75 (and that's where I'm doing almost all of my hard accelerating) the XR didn't feel any quicker. I have a friend who has a 180+ HP R1 and he is the most experienced motorcyclist that I know. He has a garage full of bikes, many of which have more than 100,000 miles on them and he is simply the most motorcycle savvy person that I have ever met (and he used to own a motorcycle shop too). He has ridden my SR and he thinks that it is competitive in mid range acceleration with his R1. In fact, when he first got off it, he thought it might be a little quicker than his R1 but I think that he was just smitten by the fact that it was an electric.

Lay off the SR, if it's not powerful for you go ride your ICE bike. And stop telling us that it only feels quick to inexperienced riders, that is simply not the case.

[Justin Andrews]

Flexy showed his true colours when he said

this "monster" ev is just a little twist and go scooter.

The fella is just a troll, and statements like this just serve to invalidate the rest of his argument.