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[corentinoger]

Hi all,
I'm new on this forum, I'm considering getting a 2016 Zero motorcycle.
I'd very much welcome any opinion to help me in the decisions.
I have to take the following parameters into consideration:
- I'm 1.83m/6ft tall and used to dual sports (currently F650GS twin)
- I'd be riding about 15000km/year (9000miles) including rain.
- Commuting distance ~80km/50miles round trip (hopefully soon a  new job closer)
- The bike would sleeping/charging under an open lean-to shed
- I tend to "lack discipline" when it  comes to speed
- Night-time temperatures where I live are typically -5°C/23°F during winteri
- I'm still not completely sure wether or not I'll  e q le to charge at work.

The decisions I still need to make are:
- DS Vs S?
- 9.8kWh Vs 13kWh battery?
- Selling the BMW Vs keeping it for freezing / heavy rain riding? ( I trust a Bavarian bike designer better than a Californian one in those conditions)

Any input appreciated!

Corentin

[NEW2elec]

Welcome to the family if you do make the choice to get a Zero.  My opinion, for what it's worth, maybe look at the  R models.  I don't know your money situation but if you go to resale it in a few years the SR and DSR will be much more saleable as the higher torque is just hard to match.
The "S" bikes will get you a bit more range with lower ride height and street tires.  I have a 2013 DS that I use as a fun toy and I love it. You know if you want the extra ground clearance and softer spring of a DS. I would go with the 13kWh again for resale, you might not need that much range but the next guy might.  On a day off I'm on the back roads wishing I had enough to ride all day.  That day will come but not yet.  If you have the money and enjoy your BMW keep it.  As much as I love the Zero if you had a bigger problem and it was in the shop for a longer time you'd be without a bike.  Good luck.

[MostlyBonkers]

+1 to everything new 2 said. You'll need the bigger battery for a 50 mile commute. I can count on 65 miles of range on my 2014 DS and plan weekend rides on that. I'm very happy with the performance of my DS for my commute. If you can stretch to a DSR, do that. Going off road on an electric is very rewarding. You'll get away with going places that petrol burners won't due to the lack of noise.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I had a 2013 DS in Seattle and now a 2016 DSR in California.

For winter, the 13 Zero had a heated grips option, but the new handlebars don't accommodate them. I recommend Urbano Tecano handlebar muffs and a windscreen.

Since you are 3 inches taller than I am, I think you'll be more comfortable on a DS or DSR than the S/SR. I have a 32 inch inseam and the bike handles very easily. I also have ridden a V-Strom 650 about 75000 miles overall (between two models).

The DS/R will handle reasonably well in rain, but do keep it in ECO mode: the torque will easily cause fishtailing even on a DS, so what you want is a nice low-ramping torque application. Note that any fishtailing is easily recoverable on a Zero because you can quickly ease off and recenter your balance to bring the bike back under control.

I'll echo the above recommendations about preferring a larger battery; what really makes the bike useful is having extra freedom/options to do extra errands that you didn't anticipate.

If you're going to leave the bike exposed to the weather, maybe look into a motorcycle cover that can avoid collecting moisture or something. Thankfully there's not much on the bike that will corrode over time except some bolts which can be treated.

[corentinoger]

Thanks for your answers, although my favourite choice would be a DSR with full spec battery, I just can't afford it. Even the 16000€ for the 13kW (D)S is very steep if I don't sell the BMW.
At 80000km/50000 miles I'm not sure I'd get that much out of it anyway, so I might as well keep it since it runs like a charm, and I'm used to mostly maintain it myself.
There's no government  incentive here in France for electric bikes, although there's a 6300€ subsidy for full-electric cars (limited to 27% of the vehicle value, but that would still help a lot). Looks like I'll have to do my share of world-saving with only my meager ressources...
I was thinking of fully enclosing/insulating my bike shed to keep it above freezing temp, but that can wait for another year, If needed I'll just force cold-charges this winter by putting a heating pad under a bike cover or something like it.

[vchampain]

Hi Corentin !

if you're in Paris and are looking for an affordable Zero, we should talk - i have a Zero 2013 with low mileage perfectly working in Paris 5e, and I'd like to move to a SR. Used Zeros are great bargains because you get a good discount. You can contact me in private message if you're interested.

- I'd be riding about 15000km/year (9000miles) including rain.
   Rain is no problem - i just changed the tires to have a better grip.

- Commuting distance ~80km/50miles round trip (hopefully soon a  new job closer)
   This is perfect for the range. You also have plenty of autolib station where you can park & refill with a 20 € or so yearly fee.

- I tend to "lack discipline" when it  comes to speed
   You can set a maximum speed giving you more discipline (or saving your permit ;-) ) if you want using the bike's mobile app.

- Night-time temperatures where I live are typically -5°C/23°F during winteri
   I've had zero for 5 years and low temperatures are not a problem. Very high ones could be - you just need to avoid charging your bike in full 45°C sun.

- I'm still not completely sure wether or not I'll  e q le to charge at work.
  If you're in Paris look at the autolib network. You have some everywhere. Else any garage plug will work.

- DS Vs S?
  Question of choice. I have a S.

- 9.8kWh Vs 13kWh battery?
  I would go for the bigger one considered the difficulty to change it but, again, it all depends on your budget.

- Selling the BMW Vs keeping it for freezing / heavy rain riding? ( I trust a Bavarian bike designer better than a Californian one in those conditions)
  Freezing/rain wont be a technical issue. You're attached to your BMW, you can buy a used Zero and keep two bikes if your budget is stretched.

[Mike Werner]

With the way technology is improving every year, i wouldn't buy a Zero, but lease it. That's what i did for my bmw c-evolution. 3 year lease, €250/ month for a 16,000 bike...After 3 years, i'm free to get whatever is on the market then.

[Richard230]

With the way technology is improving every year, i wouldn't buy a Zero, but lease it. That's what i did for my bmw c-evolution. 3 year lease, €250/ month for a 16,000 bike...After 3 years, i'm free to get whatever is on the market then.

That is a good idea.  However in the U.S., dealers and motorcycle manufacturers do not seem to offer a leasing program for motorcycles.  I have yet to understand why and neither did any sales people that I have talked to in the past.  Apparently, the market just isn't large enough to interest companies that specialize in leasing vehicles.  Autos, trucks and airplanes seem to provide them with all of the business that they need.   

[Mike Werner]

True, in my case it's a bmw lease, but i've leased bikes here and in the netherlands with 3rd party leasing companies. But yes, it's not easy, they seam to be more reluctant...

[protomech]

Hi all,
I'm new on this forum, I'm considering getting a 2016 Zero motorcycle.
I'd very much welcome any opinion to help me in the decisions.
I have to take the following parameters into consideration:
- I'm 1.83m/6ft tall and used to dual sports (currently F650GS twin)
- I'd be riding about 15000km/year (9000miles) including rain.
- Commuting distance ~80km/50miles round trip (hopefully soon a  new job closer)
- The bike would sleeping/charging under an open lean-to shed
- I tend to "lack discipline" when it  comes to speed
- Night-time temperatures where I live are typically -5°C/23°F during winteri
- I'm still not completely sure wether or not I'll  e q le to charge at work.

The decisions I still need to make are:
- DS Vs S?
- 9.8kWh Vs 13kWh battery?
- Selling the BMW Vs keeping it for freezing / heavy rain riding? ( I trust a Bavarian bike designer better than a Californian one in those conditions)

Any input appreciated!

Corentin

- DS Vs S?

The DS is probably similar to your F650GS - good for fire trails, but too heavy for serious offroading.

cycle-ergo.com doesn't have more recent DS models, but knee bend for a S is a little more than your F650, knee bend for a DS is a little less. Best way to find out will be to go for a ride on both, if ergonomics is the clinching factor.

The S will introduce more knee bend, but it's also (supposedly) a little quicker and has less aero drag, ergo more range.

- 9.8kWh Vs 13kWh battery?

What speed do you tend to ride to work at? Do you have the capability to charge both at work and at home?

If you can, try to map your route out using a GPS / speed tracking application like runkepeer, mapmyrun, strava, or similar. This will give a more accurate gauge of how much time you spend at what speed, and can better allow you to estimate your range.

The smaller battery 2016 S ZF9.8 has virtually the same 55 mph range as MostlyBonker's 2014 DS, and the 2016 DS has a little less. The smaller battery bike is 14kg/32lbs lighter, which does slightly improve acceleration. Assuming the route isn't purely highway travel at > 100 km/h, the smaller battery S should be able to handle your commute in all but the coldest days.

If the less expensive bike allows you to keep both bikes but still provide enough range for commuting and short fun rides, then maybe it makes sense to buy a less expensive Zero and keep the BMW for long and winter rides.

Obviously the ideal situation would be a SR or a DS-R AND keep your existing bike, but you have to decide how far your budget extends

[corentinoger]

Thanks again for the replies
I hadn't thought of the leasing option, it would seem like an attractive idea, but I'm not sure it's possible around Paris.
I only found a dealer offering weekly and monthly rentals (that might be a good idea to give it a try).
Thanks MostlyBonkers for the offer, but I'm mostly interested in the 2016 line-up (maybe 2015 too). I'll keep your bike in mind in case I change my plans.
(I won't have the actual funds before September anyway)
I didn't know you could charge on the Autolib stations in Paris, it's good to know, although I live (and will soon work) way outside the Autolib network, are you using a regular plug or the "CHAdeMO" one?

I don't think I'll be doing any off-road with the zero so for me "DS Vs S" is just a matter of "comfort Vs  efficiency".

I've seen that you could buy extra chargers which if I understand correctly take advantage of the extra capacity provided by the European 230-240V grid. Did anyone try those? I don't really know whether it involves a modification of the actual bike or something you keep at home. apparently you can combine several of them to divide home-charge time by 4.

Ride safe (and quiet...)
Corentin

[MostlyBonkers]

Hmm, I'm not sure what offer I made... LOL!  It makes sense to go for the latest model year you can. However, if money is tight, you might just find that there are one or two DSP bikes still for sale. I paid £6,500 for mine and it was brand new and comes with the standard two year warranty, with the battery covered for five years.  I'm very happy with it, so if you do want some more info, I might get round to writing a review. Before that though, I really should try and write something for the Diginow user manual...

[Kocho]

The legs position while riding on a S and DS is exactly the same. So once you are off the ground, your legs will not know the difference. The DS does *not* have more space between the seat and the foot pegs than the S. The difference is the suspension/wheel size and handlebars. On a DS you ride a little more upright than on S. I personally prefer the S over the DS and I am tall at 192cm. On the DS I slouch because I am too upright due to the taller handlebars. Those, combined with a forward-leaning seat angle made for a very uncomfortable ride for me. On the S I have a very slight forward lean, which I find a lot more comfortable than the fully upright position on the DS.

S and SR are the same and DS and DSR are the same (in terms of seating position/physical size).

You will be freezing cold on the naked Zero - I would much prefer something with fairings and wind protection, but again I am too spoiled and usually don't ride unless it is nice, dry, and warm outside.

I got the '15 SR with the 12.5 (?) battery and am very happy with its power and range for commuting. I would have been a bit underwhelmed with the S version - the added torque of the R version I think is very nice. But the S is perfectly fine and plenty fast and quick if you are not an aggressive rider.

In the US I was very tempted by the '16 S with the 9.8kW battery - it would have cost me under $8K brand new, after government and state incentives and the Zero $1,000 rebate. But for just a little more for me a used '15 SR with its larger battery and more power was a better deal - one like that sold for about $9K on eBay last month (but they don't come available often and usually sellers ask for more as these bikes are relatively few and still fairly new). They are more money in Europe, but then gas and cars are more expensive there too, so might be relatively the same deal...

[mguw]

Salut Corentin

I had a duke 690 prior to my Zero FX,  and initially thought keeping both.  After one week the duke was on sale.

Take the R,  you never have enough of this addictive electric torque.

Concerning the range,  think it is half of what is announced as riding full torque is so much fun,  you'll never cruise

Marcel de Toulouse

A+
Marcel

[Richard230]

Speaking of the advantages of electric vehicles, I heard on another forum that there is a fuel strike in France.  What is going on?  Who is striking and what is their beef?