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[JaimeC]

Did some searching and I see a lot of posts here from people lamenting the lack of any kind of service manual for Zeros.  If you recall when I first picked up my bike, the turn signals stopped working after less than a day.  We determined it wasn't a fuse issue, as the same fuse that protects the flashers also protects the brake light and horn, and those both still work.

Likely it is a defective relay, but where is it?  What is the part number?  Is it a generic "off the shelf" part, or does a special one have to be ordered?  Also, the other day when I turned the bike on, the left blinker started flashing.  I pressed in the button to cancel it, but could never get it to start blinking again.  Maybe the relay is just loose?  I have no idea, and no information to even dig in to take a look.  Very frustrating.

[quixotic]

Yes, you've pinpointed a major company flaw. I have to chuckle when I look at the owner's manual (2013) section on brakes. "Replace the brake
pads if either pad’s thickness is 0.053 in (1.35 mm) or less.
If the brake pads (A) are worn, replace both brake pads
immediately."
That's it. I could probably muddle through, since I've done it on other bikes. But a lot of people would haul it to the dealer (100 miles away for me) for a potentially long wait and potentially expensive fix.

[PhreaK]

Yep it sucks. There's some awesome resources spread around this forum, but things would be so much nicer if Zero provided:

1. service manual accessible to us unwashed masses
2. user accessible software toolkit for log decoding and firmware upgrades

Sure, you probably don't want people messing with the MBB etc -- same as ECU's on dino juice machines are (generally) not played with extensively, but for those of us who maintain our own machines (either through want or need) these tools are invaluable.

[Cortezdtv]

Sounds more like a defective switch than the relay; go to the dealer have them warrentee  diagnose/replace it....

I used to think that the service manual should be accessible.... Meh not anymore....


Phreak.  #2 ...  Thats like asking an auto maker to give up the turning information to their race cars....

[Electric Terry]

One day soon I'm sure there will be a service manual, but there is a huge cost with producing this.  And unlike a ninja 250 which can go unchanged for 20 years (1988 to 2007) or Chilton or Haynes manuals for cars that sell hundreds of thousands of units, for someone to take the time to write a service manual there needs to be some incentive in it.  It's not Zero's job to make the manual.  It's the aftermarket like Haynes or Chilton, but the quantities need to rise first.

This is why we have the forums.  To help each other with simple things that can be done at home.  I'll bet within 5 years, someone will buy a Zero, dissect it, take pictures, and write a service manual and then sell it to Zero owners.  The number of Zero's on the road need to go up just a little more for that financial return of selling manuals to make sense.  Maybe a manual for like $500 if they sold 100.  But they would have to be preordered and presold I think for someone to be willing to do this, because someone would probably scan it and post it online and so that would prevent future sales and make it not worth an experts time.  Or it would have to be cheap enough that everyone would buy it and not want to get it for free to make it worthwhile for someone to take the time to do this.

How many people would be willing to pay $500 for a service manual?  If 100 people on here want one, I have a friend who could probably do this. He has been so busy being hired for design work, he was going to try to work less, so he raised his rates a little to $250 per hour and what happened? He got more work lol.  But he would be the right guy to do it.   Some of you might know who I'm talking about.  He lives for physics with everything he does, lets put it that way.

Maybe someone on here with some free time could try to make one, and make it open source and then all of us could pitch in to make it better over time.  I think for now that would have the highest chance of success towards eventually getting a manual.

[JaimeC]

Why does it have to be a third-party?  What do the dealerships use to service the bikes?  Every manufacturer I'm aware of produces a shop manual for their dealerships (I have the BMW DVD for my two ICE machines).  I'm pretty sure the servicing dealerships have some kind of information to service the bikes; they don't just overnight them to California for repairs, after all.

[Ndm]

The impression that I got from the dealer is,call zero and talk to a tech, they tell them "check this and that then phone us back" I think that is why its a slow process

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Zero sells 50 times fewer bikes than BMW, probably has a similar ratio of staff, and has a generation of bikes that is only 3-4 years old, so it's inappropriate to expect similar levels of support.

Ndm is referring to troubleshooting guidance, but the parts diagrams are on a non-standard system as well.

[JaimeC]

The impression that I got from the dealer is,call zero and talk to a tech, they tell them "check this and that then phone us back" I think that is why its a slow process

OUCH!  That sounds PAINFUL.  I'm surprised they don't at least provide a wiring diagram in the owner's manual.

[RedWizardChris]

Terry, I respectfully disagree.  It is absolutely Zero's job to provide service and repair documentation.  Lack of proper technical data could cause injury or death to someone performing maintenance, as well as putting a rider at risk afterwards. Conversely, there is no law requiring repair work to be performed by a dealer so anyone who could legally perform the work should have access to important safety information.  I can only presume what the Zero dealers currently have access to is useable enough to consider a Service Manual, so the extra cost argument is questionable.

While the only law on the books for Right to Repair legislation is in Massachusetts with a nationwide agreement by 2018, motorcycles are currently not included in that bill.  Zero may be legally exempt from providing technical documentation to their owners and independent repair shops, but I believe they are not ethically exempt.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/01/automakers-agree-right-repair-pledge.html

Also I don't mean this to sound angry, it's just my soapbox as an electronics engineering technician.  Pat Charger on the head for me! 

[MrDude_1]

Terry, I respectfully disagree.  It is absolutely Zero's job to provide service and repair documentation.  Lack of proper technical data could cause injury or death to someone performing maintenance, as well as putting a rider at risk afterwards. Conversely, there is no law requiring repair work to be performed by a dealer so anyone who could legally perform the work should have access to important safety information.  I can only presume what the Zero dealers currently have access to is useable enough to consider a Service Manual, so the extra cost argument is questionable.

While the only law on the books for Right to Repair legislation is in Massachusetts with a nationwide agreement by 2018, motorcycles are currently not included in that bill.  Zero may be legally exempt from providing technical documentation to their owners and independent repair shops, but I believe they are not ethically exempt.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/01/automakers-agree-right-repair-pledge.html

Also I don't mean this to sound angry, it's just my soapbox as an electronics engineering technician.  Pat Charger on the head for me! 

uhh. ditto. lol

The sucky thing is this information already exists. Its not like they have to go out and make the manual, its that they need one person with the access to the dealer information to compile it INTO a manual.  Once its done, updating it is easy.

[ctrlburn]

Zero is accumulating a knowledge base of symptoms and solutions which just needs to be published online. Granting users the same search capabilities of their staff.

Zero must have some training materials for their assembly staff. This too can be made available as a reference.

A "classic" service manual may take time to accumulate. Until then - share what you have.

[Cortezdtv]

Zero is accumulating a knowledge base of symptoms and solutions which just needs to be published online. Granting users the same search capabilities of their staff.

Zero must have some training materials for their assembly staff. This too can be made available as a reference.

A "classic" service manual may take time to accumulate. Until then - share what you have.

Ive said this before and ill say it again


Post a specific quesrion that you need help with; if you post can i just have the dcf for my zero.... Its not going to happen....
Same thing as the login for the dongle; some people on here have it the password has been tossed about, but if you cant show the proper knowleage to understand whats going on i side that hub; you probably shouldnt be in there....
There is way to much to go wrong on a liability side; you can instantly roach your motor, controller, electronics, not to mention if you have a serious malfunction and you have a run away setting the encoder angle or timing you could have a really bad day!!! Bikes or parts flying though your work area at high speeds....

[MrDude_1]

There is way to much to go wrong on a liability side; you can instantly roach your motor, controller, electronics, not to mention if you have a serious malfunction and you have a run away setting the encoder angle or timing you could have a really bad day!!! Bikes or parts flying though your work area at high speeds....

yeah... because having people poke around with no guide is SOOOO much safer.

[JaimeC]

Is it any more dangerous than working on a vehicle with potential electric sparks and a tank full of high explosives???