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[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I think the whole 'DevOps is going to eat the world' thing is overblown - it's a new name for an old technique. One of the cool things I've seen is more DBA presence in the dev teams, that makes some huge difference!

Yeah, I've been a designated "data developer" and managed schema migration systems, and feel like this did wonders for our progress. But I have a viz/analytics background...

(Back On-Topic) all the above proposals sound reasonable, but we need to see what the needs are, hopefully very soon now.

[Erasmo]

For the documentation needs:

- How to install at the controller
- 3 phases and Mennekes

[DynoMutt]

So one thing that probably needs to be documented is that if you ride at like 85 mph all day and supercharge immediately after getting off the freeway while riding like that after a hundred miles or so your battery might say it needs a min to cool down. I did 130 miles today that way, and Terry has found the same. Riding over 80mph and supercharging multiple times will warm your battery up as the day goes on.

Should pose no issues for people who actually do the speed limit though.

I had done 100 miles in 2.5 to 3 hours only charging to Super Charging to 50% and then running the battery to 0% as fast as possible today, over and over.

There are some places where 85 MPH IS the speed limit

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks for everyone's comments. Would anyone like to take the lead on this project? I would suggest that Brandon would be the best person, although it might be worthwhile having someone taking a lead role on the community side.  I don't mean to say that Brandon isn't already a big part of the community, it's just that he's very busy. Someone else might be better placed to do the cat herding required to bring it all together. Someone with enough experience to make some decisions around methodology etc.

I'm still not clear about the best way to approach the knowledge transfer so that volunteers have some material to work with. Also, with the Supercharger about to ship to the first batch of customers, I'm not sure where we stand. Is there still a requirement or have the guys managed to cover the documentation somehow? Handwritten notes and diagrams perhaps?

[Burton]

I would suggest simply creating a public wiki with closed editors.

As a former business owner myself I can tell you Brandon is likely too busy to want to take this on himself, especially when he doesn't have to. Fans will do what fans will do especially if you let them do it.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I've just spent a very busy day with Brandon working on this stuff. I'll try to build some core documents to help get the first adopters set up quickly, and there will definitely be a tier of wiki-style notes and documentation around it which is less formal and possibly more about "workable patterns" that is unofficial and belongs to us per se as invested customers.

[MrDude_1]

someone should go through the "Hypothetically, if you could charge a zero in UNDER 1 hour" thread and pull out all the relevant facts.

For example, even though there is a 100amp fuse for the charge connection, it will blow with sustained use over 80amps, so there is an 80 amp limit.

Some basic battery charging knowledge will help too.  Starting with volts amps and wattage, how they relate.. then current and voltage limits, and ending with how the charger works running at the set current limit until it hits a voltage limit... and then the wattage drops,  etc.. that would help others with understanding why that last 5% is so much slower than the rest of the charge.


Also a schematic and techincal info would be nice... my understanding is its an non-isolated buck only supply... is there PFC?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

someone should go through the "Hypothetically, if you could charge a zero in UNDER 1 hour" thread and pull out all the relevant facts.

For example, even though there is a 100amp fuse for the charge connection, it will blow with sustained use over 80amps, so there is an 80 amp limit.

Some basic battery charging knowledge will help too.  Starting with volts amps and wattage, how they relate.. then current and voltage limits, and ending with how the charger works running at the set current limit until it hits a voltage limit... and then the wattage drops,  etc.. that would help others with understanding why that last 5% is so much slower than the rest of the charge.


Also a schematic and techincal info would be nice... my understanding is its an non-isolated buck only supply... is there PFC?

I'll ask for available technical information. The fuse was on my mind but didn't yet have a place in the outline, thanks for the reminder. It has specific numbers that are different than discussed so far.

The power cutbacks are actually foremost on my mind, for reasons that will be clear once the docs are vetted for turning over into the open for collaboration (should be shortly, just have to let them work out what level of detail is appropriate).

The install steps have been photographed pretty extensively and should be really clear, by the way. The only concern is ensuring electrical safety with a basic understanding of system operation.

Overall battery and charger theory of operation is a good idea, but we'll want it concise; we should find something that resembles the clarity of navy technician training I received. The goals is to make it very simple to reason about remotely using at most a smart phone but mental math should work. We don't want travelers to be under stress figuring out what's up with some weird charging station and their rig.

[MrDude_1]

I'll ask for available technical information. The fuse was on my mind but didn't yet have a place in the outline, thanks for the reminder. It has specific numbers that are different than discussed so far.

The power cutbacks are actually foremost on my mind, for reasons that will be clear once the docs are vetted for turning over into the open for collaboration (should be shortly, just have to let them work out what level of detail is appropriate).

The install steps have been photographed pretty extensively and should be really clear, by the way. The only concern is ensuring electrical safety with a basic understanding of system operation.

Overall battery and charger theory of operation is a good idea, but we'll want it concise; we should find something that resembles the clarity of navy technician training I received. The goals is to make it very simple to reason about remotely using at most a smart phone but mental math should work. We don't want travelers to be under stress figuring out what's up with some weird charging station and their rig.

Excellent. The only reason I was thinking of a primer is to keep it concise. So someone that sees those amps start dropping down, realizes they're coming close to the end of charge. Most talk on the subject either assumes the person understands the underlying concepts, or they try too get too in depth technically and peoples eyes glaze over.

Just a simple, its max this, until it hits that. Just enough to get the idea across, and you can see it on the app.

[Doug S]

... my understanding is its an non-isolated buck only supply... is there PFC?

I don't believe that's correct. In order to be compatible with the widest variety of inputs (low-voltage DC among them), I'm pretty sure they first boost the input voltage, then buck it to the regulated DC output. PFC is built into the first stage.

I can't find it now, but I'm pretty sure Brandon or somebody said that somewhere. I'm an EE, so it stuck in my mind.

[MrDude_1]

... my understanding is its an non-isolated buck only supply... is there PFC?

I don't believe that's correct. In order to be compatible with the widest variety of inputs (low-voltage DC among them), I'm pretty sure they first boost the input voltage, then buck it to the regulated DC output. PFC is built into the first stage.

I can't find it now, but I'm pretty sure Brandon or somebody said that somewhere. I'm an EE, so it stuck in my mind.

Ah, I didnt know it supported low voltage DC input. I thought the lowest input was around 110 RMS AC, so it still rectifies to high enough DC voltage for a buck-only charger.
What is a common low voltage DC source? Im in the USA so I'm not familiar with any common DC support around the world besides CHAdeMO, and in the real world the chargers generally doesnt go as low as the spec... If I recall correctly that was zeros problem with them.. they didnt all support low voltage.

[Doug S]

Ah, I didnt know it supported low voltage DC input. I thought the lowest input was around 110 RMS AC, so it still rectifies to high enough DC voltage for a buck-only charger.
What is a common low voltage DC source? Im in the USA so I'm not familiar with any common DC support around the world besides CHAdeMO, and in the real world the chargers generally doesnt go as low as the spec... If I recall correctly that was zeros problem with them.. they didnt all support low voltage.

I'm in the US too, and I'm probably mis-remembering. Perhaps it's because it's designed to be capable of running off of 115AC and the charger design isn't specific to the Zero, but can be used on higher-voltage vehicles like the Leaf? In any event, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that it uses two stages, and the first stage had PFC built into it already.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The only reason I was thinking of a primer is to keep it concise. So someone that sees those amps start dropping down, realizes they're coming close to the end of charge. Most talk on the subject either assumes the person understands the underlying concepts, or they try too get too in depth technically and peoples eyes glaze over.

Just a simple, its max this, until it hits that. Just enough to get the idea across, and you can see it on the app.

Yes, a simple explanation of most of the symptoms and numbers so you can understand what to expect and a bit of "why" is what will make this attractive. I had my own moment today dealing with the bike not having the onboard charger activated, had it explained to me, so now I try to condense how the bike works in that mode into rev 1 so the next customer doesn't feel nervous and unplug like I did.

I have a nuclear technician's instinct to "force it to fail safe if it's acting up; don't rely on automatic safeguards" approach, but hopefully it helps me track down every little symptom that might trip up others. Basically I'm watching the bike and charger like a hawk for anything that looks unexpected to me so I can include recommendations or prevent losing time to breakage at the cost of making a phone call or text message to ask about something that happens.

It helps that I literally put out fires on IGBT-based reversible solid state 450V AC-DC inverters in the late 90s meant for submarines...

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'll be working with Brandon tomorrow to finalize the current phase of documentation to publish. Some of the initial discussion has been about how to structure everything to be clear and straightforward to reason about. Making people skip around the text to figure something out is a recipe for frustration and we want the early adopters particularly to feel confident using it.

A few days ago, we walked someone through an install over the phone and had a troubleshooting story arise out of that which I think was instructive. It was also successful, of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks for the updates Brian. It sounds like the documentation is in good hands and I look forward to seeing the results of your efforts. Even if I can't afford to buy a Super Charger right now!