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Author Topic: Zero 2017  (Read 46756 times)

mrwilsn

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #240 on: October 28, 2016, 10:32:57 PM »

And do those dealers have NDAs?

Yes

There's a very big difference between announcing MSRP to interested media show-goers for public announcement and the expected slate for dealers to do their planning with.

Not sure what you mean by this.  Dealers are already ordering demo models.

Less than 2 weeks and all will be revealed....then we can start the 2018 thread....haha

Anything that has not been announced to the public is much more easily changed without loss of face.

You're being rather obtuse.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. If that makes me obtuse...OK...then I'm obtuse.

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mrwilsn

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #241 on: October 29, 2016, 02:13:36 AM »



When I test rode a 2016 SR, back in March I think, my dealer told me if I wanted one they would order it from the factory and wouldn't sell the demo until later in the year.  Basically dealers only had to keep two demo bikes which limited their inventory costs which is a good  deal for them and customers get a factory fresh bike. 

I think that model worked out well so dealers should really just pick a couple of demo bikes and get "butts on bikes" and let them sell their selves.

Correct. Dealers get to floor the demo models for free until late in the year just before the new models come out.  How many depends on the size of the market. They let larger markets have an extra bike than the smaller markets.  But the dealers get to pick which models they want as demos.  Essentially an interest free loan.  When I said they needed to order bikes I meant just picking which models.

They probably can sell the demos sooner but it doesn't make sense financially to do so unless the customer was willing to pay full price for the demo model just so they don't have to wait for an order.  But it is possible that Zero doesn't even allow it in that scenario.

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ericramos1990

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #242 on: October 29, 2016, 03:43:53 AM »

Just got off the phone with a Zero dealer.

Long story short, my job will have me driving to really far locations sometimes, (ex. 85 miles ONE way).

So range is pretty crucial to me.I was trying to communicate this to him, but he kept insisting to buy the 2016 model. I also told him I'm considering a Ninja 300, and he pretty much tried to guilt me for it, with a "Really?" Ugh dealers can be so damn rude and annoying.  >:(

Well anyways, he told me that the 2017 specs should be public on Nov 15, to confirm whoever mentioned a similar date to that in this forum.

Also he said that the 2017 range will pretty much be the same as the 2016, but I just think he's saying all this sh*t to get me to buy the 2016. *rolls eyes*.

I'm just hoping the 2017 improves by at least 10 more miles to the charge, and it would be worth it, for my case at least.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #243 on: October 29, 2016, 04:19:20 AM »

Just got off the phone with a Zero dealer.

Long story short, my job will have me driving to really far locations sometimes, (ex. 85 miles ONE way).

So range is pretty crucial to me.I was trying to communicate this to him, but he kept insisting to buy the 2016 model. I also told him I'm considering a Ninja 300, and he pretty much tried to guilt me for it, with a "Really?" Ugh dealers can be so damn rude and annoying.  >:(

Well anyways, he told me that the 2017 specs should be public on Nov 15, to confirm whoever mentioned a similar date to that in this forum.

Also he said that the 2017 range will pretty much be the same as the 2016, but I just think he's saying all this sh*t to get me to buy the 2016. *rolls eyes*.

I'm just hoping the 2017 improves by at least 10 more miles to the charge, and it would be worth it, for my case at least.

I won't try to interpret your interaction with the dealer, but the 2016 model will handle 85 miles one way at highway speeds, particularly with a generously sized windscreen, and older models will make compromises to do the same because the battery capacity difference is that real (13 vs 12.5 and then 11.4 pretty much is a very real capacity rating). If the 2017 has the same cells as the 2016, there's no reason for you to prefer it on range factors, and you may get a discount on a demo model.

I commute 85 miles round trip and charge at work on a regular power outlet (only 4 hours needed), but I do have access to J plugs. The 2016 model (13kWh pack) will require nearly 10 hours to recharge from empty, and I'm going to assume that that's not fast enough for you; it shouldn't be. You need to think about some kind of extra charger, even if it's one of Zero's light but low capacity Quick Chargers, or an Elcon 2500 from Hollywood Electrics, or a Charge Tank.

I will say that your commute will be less stressful and you'll start saving money on gas and maintenance, mainly the chain and oil changes. Think about how long you'll be making this commute and add up the maintenance costs and time associated, and that's where you start seeing that the $16k price pays off. 60-70k miles later, you won't have added up maintenance costs aside from brake pad and tired changes every ~10k miles.


One thing is for sure: capacity won't increase more than 10% per year, and a capacity increase does not improve your charge rate at all; 85 miles takes out the same amount of power from differently sized batteries, and the onboard charger (or third party charger) will recover that power at the same rate.
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ericramos1990

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #244 on: October 29, 2016, 08:42:10 AM »

particularly with a generously sized windscreen

Wait really? Do you believe the windscreen will make a significant difference? I was looking at this post: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2358.0 and some people seem to agree. That would be so awesome if it were true, and I'd for sure buy one for the extra range.

The thing that makes it tricky for me is that I have to drive to people's houses, and I think it would be a little awkward is I ask them if I can plug in lol. But who knows, I don't even have far clients yet, I have yet to know, so maybe I'm just overthinking.

I can totally do with 10 hours, I sleep for most of those, so it's not really a big deal :D

My main concern is that what if my battery is at 5% on the way back home, what can I do to save my butt? I remember looking at another forum about getting a free charge somewhere, such as a library, but I can't seem to find it. But I'd love to hear what you guys would do in the situation where your battery is almost dead, where would be a good backup place to charge? (Or maybe even to freeload and get free electricity at a public place lol)
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #245 on: October 29, 2016, 01:16:16 PM »

particularly with a generously sized windscreen

Wait really? Do you believe the windscreen will make a significant difference? I was looking at this post: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2358.0 and some people seem to agree. That would be so awesome if it were true, and I'd for sure buy one for the extra range.

Yes, you'll get 5-10% back on the highway from a good windscreen. I get 15% using a custom large windscreen mount, story in this thread:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5525

General aftermarket listing:
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#Windscreens

The flip side of aerodynamics is that a headwind will reduce your range by the same amount or worse unless you slow down. You may have to ride at 55mph instead of 70mph.

The thing that makes it tricky for me is that I have to drive to people's houses, and I think it would be a little awkward is I ask them if I can plug in lol. But who knows, I don't even have far clients yet, I have yet to know, so maybe I'm just overthinking.

This is what PlugShare is for. Use that app for that. Don't cold call unless it's an emergency, and definitely be diplomatic about it, because it can be weird to be approached for power.

I can totally do with 10 hours, I sleep for most of those, so it's not really a big deal :D

Overnight is exactly what the onboard charger is made to handle.

My main concern is that what if my battery is at 5% on the way back home, what can I do to save my butt? I remember looking at another forum about getting a free charge somewhere, such as a library, but I can't seem to find it. But I'd love to hear what you guys would do in the situation where your battery is almost dead, where would be a good backup place to charge? (Or maybe even to freeload and get free electricity at a public place lol)

Yes, getting stranded this way sucks. Again, PlugShare is the best solution right now for this, but you'll be better off getting a level 2 charger (the ones I listed above) to avoid being stranded. Of course, it depends on what region you're in and what's commonly available. A 50amp RV plug may be more common than J1772, but both are level 2.

The outlay for a decent level 2 charging setup will run about $1000-2000 or so, though, depending on the option. A little resourcefulness drives the cost below that, but you wind up taking more responsibility for the hardware.

One note is that the 2016 bikes will typically run all the way down to 0% pretty reliably compared to older models, but you don't want to do this regularly since it stresses out the battery cells.
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cheesymac47

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Zero 2017
« Reply #246 on: October 29, 2016, 11:49:52 PM »

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/promotions/event.php?t=2170

Looks like someone screwed up. Demos listed are a new SR13.0, DS6.5 with charge tank, and FXS6.5. 

So no battery increase for 2017, but a new battery arrangement for at least the DS line. This would be a brick down, would it not? Makes me think they are trying to add flexibility to get model prices down by giving smaller pack options. I believe some one mentioned that possibility before...

EDIT: KrazyEd was the one who mentioned this earlier in the thread.


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« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 11:55:08 PM by cheesymac47 »
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mrwilsn

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #247 on: October 30, 2016, 12:18:07 AM »

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/promotions/event.php?t=2170

Looks like someone screwed up. Demos listed are a new SR13.0, DS6.5 with charge tank, and FXS6.5. 

So no battery increase for 2017, but a new battery arrangement for at least the DS line. This would be a brick down, would it not? Makes me think they are trying to add flexibility to get model prices down by giving smaller pack options. I believe some one mentioned that possibility before...

EDIT: KrazyEd was the one who mentioned this earlier in the thread.


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Yep, the cats out of the bag. On the Zero 10 year anniversary event factory tour I saw DS 6.5. It was hanging from a tag that had a 17 on it. No Doubt  the zero s  will have a 6.5 model too. But I'm not worried this is going to be a stale year. I just don't think that zero would go to eicma if they didn't have something exciting to announce.

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NEW2elec

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #248 on: October 30, 2016, 12:58:02 AM »

Whats the point of a 6.5 DS?  Lighter weight for off road?  Charge tank with off road?   
Tree chargers?
I guess they are going aero fairings with the SR?

I was going to say just a typo but if yall saw it so be it.
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mrwilsn

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #249 on: October 30, 2016, 01:03:45 AM »

Whats the point of a 6.5 DS?  Lighter weight for off road?  Charge tank with off road?   
Tree chargers?
I guess they are going aero fairings with the SR?

I was going to say just a typo but if yall saw it so be it.
I think @cheesymac is right...puts a bigger difference between models than you get with 9.8/13. S/DS are the commuter bikes. Price will probably be closer to FX/FXS and you get storage that you don't get with FX/FXS.

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Alan Stewart

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2016, 01:29:10 AM »

Despite comments that the new 32A cells are likely too new to go into the 2017 models, I seem to recall with the last cell upgrade Farasis did not publicly announce the new cell until after Zero had made their announcement.
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Erasmo

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #251 on: October 30, 2016, 02:43:13 AM »

Whats the point of a 6.5 DS?  Lighter weight for off road?  Charge tank with off road?   
Tree chargers?
I guess they are going aero fairings with the SR?

I was going to say just a typo but if yall saw it so be it.
People who want a DS but don't need the range. If you want one to commute with but don't live too far away from work it makes sense.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #252 on: October 30, 2016, 03:31:53 AM »

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong but sounds like a solution searching for a problem.
If someone  "needs" the DS size but can't afford a 13ZF buy a used one.
The charge tank goes sort of quick but only to 80%
The FX shows 50 mile range at 55MPH
DS would be less being heavier and wider so lets say 44 miles.
So power tank charging would get you about 35 miles in around 2 hours.
I just don't see it.
I watch the used market on these bikes and the ones that sit the longest are the smaller pack bikes.
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Kocho

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #253 on: October 30, 2016, 05:39:10 AM »

6.5 battery I think is too small for most who commute on highways for more than 15 miles one way. I went to a place today that's only 25 or so miles away, but mostly highway, 75-80mph pretty much constant speed. With almost 2x the size of the 6.5 battery, at 80mph I estimate I have probably 60 miles of range on the '15 SR with large windscreen. And I'll be at less than 20% left and with restricted power at the end. With a 6.5 battery I can't make this trip. I could use side roads, but instead of 30 minutes it is 1hr+ each way, not practical...

Yup, cheaper is good, but I think folks buy DS for commuting. So, unlike the FX/FXS that could live with a small battery for off road or track use, for street use it is just too restricting. A commuter bike that costs over 10K out the door with a range of less than 30 highway miles at high speed is not a good proposition, IMO. If one has a city or slower and shorter commute, maybe OK, but then the FX/S is way more fun...

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clay.leihy

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Re: Zero 2017
« Reply #254 on: October 30, 2016, 05:39:50 AM »

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong but sounds like a solution searching for a problem.
If someone  "needs" the DS size but can't afford a 13ZF buy a used one.
The charge tank goes sort of quick but only to 80%
The FX shows 50 mile range at 55MPH
DS would be less being heavier and wider so lets say 44 miles.
So power tank charging would get you about 35 miles in around 2 hours.
I just don't see it.
I watch the used market on these bikes and the ones that sit the longest are the smaller pack bikes.
IMO, FX is great for local commuting. With about 13 miles one way and a "large" windshield, I get home in the evening from commuting mostly highway both ways with about 30% left.

I think something like the old XU might be a good addition to the lineup. Smaller, cheaper, more noob friendly. Maybe jam more capacity (4-5kWh?) into a single power pack and make the bike even smaller and lighter. Catch some customers who might otherwise go with a scooter or Grom type bike.

So, battery density up about 30%, one pack. Smaller, lighter (maybe near 200#?), range about 50 miles, cheaper (5k-7k USD?). Perfect city bike, I might invest in a dealership.

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« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 05:55:35 AM by clay.leihy »
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