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[Killroy]

Zero is adding a CHAdeMO receiver

I was at the "Drive Electric" event over the weekend in Cupertino and there was a lot of industry there.  A charger maker, I forget who, told me that Zero is buying one of there CHAdeMo receiver for DC fast charging.   

[benswing]

Zero is adding a CHAdeMO receiver

I was at the "Drive Electric" event over the weekend in Cupertino and there was a lot of industry there.  A charger maker, I forget who, told me that Zero is buying one of there CHAdeMo receiver for DC fast charging.   

Are you sure they weren't talking about Tony Williams at QuickChargePower.com who has been working on CHAdeMO for Zero this past winter?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Zero is adding a CHAdeMO receiver

I was at the "Drive Electric" event over the weekend in Cupertino and there was a lot of industry there.  A charger maker, I forget who, told me that Zero is buying one of there CHAdeMo receiver for DC fast charging.   

Are you sure they weren't talking about Tony Williams at QuickChargePower.com who has been working on CHAdeMO for Zero this past winter?

I was there, and I'm sure that's who he was talking to. Zero had no official representatives there.

[Manzanita]

How about this for a new concept: an electric bike that will compete with the Honda Grom (125cc) market. Maybe 20 HP, 40 mile range, 60+ mph top speed, low weight and low seat height for new/short riders. MSRP about $4000 USD. It will of course also compete with the scooter market since it'll be easy to ride and light.

That's a tiny market.
People interested in a low-range, slow-ish bike are usually looking for lowest-cost personal transportation. At the higher end, that's (some) scooters, electric or not, at the lower end, an electric bicycle can be used for pretty much all <10mi one-way trips (*) much more cheaply (**). Also, 60mph isn't needed -- 40mph is plenty for this everywhere I've seen (I'm in country where scooters outnumber motorcycles 10:1, the reverse ratio from Europe or the US), and in many places reduces the licensing/registration requirements.

Recall that any vehicle classified as motorcycle already has basic barriers to entry: You need an appropriate driver's license (not trivial to get in many regions), insurance, extra gear (most countries/regions require helmets at least) which many people regard as a hassle. People willing to go through that will mostly want a bigger/faster bike; the gateway drug to e-motorcycles will be 250cc ICE singles (in the wacky US, even 600 twins), as they are for standard ICE bikes.
Also, the cost you're suggesting is only possible with high volume manufacturing & thin margins. Zero won't get there for 3-4 years at least. Only one of the Big 4 could make such a bike work commercially.

(*) Unless you can't use bike paths or sidewalks & the only riding route is sharing crowded roads with much faster cars -- the danger outweighs the benefit in that case.
(**) For example, the RadPower RadWagon is a 750W electric cargo bicycle capable of hauling a couple of kids  or ~200lbs of cargo, for $1500.

Well the average 125-150cc scooter only has ~10 HP, so 20 HP is not low power, it is high-power in that marketplace. So really this is a high-end scooter (and people do pay $4-5k USD for scooters here). It differs signficantly from the Zero dirt lineup in that it is friendly to shorter and less experienced people (but similarly light weight). And just like the Grom and Z125 attract a male crowd that would never want to be seen on a scooter, so will this bike. Friendly, fast enough for short distances on the freeway and enough range for many commuters. With a cost of $6k for example, that is a big psychological difference from 12-15k. Maybe this concept doesn't work in other countries, but I like it. They have the battery and motor technology, and they need a model with a lower entry price-point.

[grmarks]

From what I saw, I am guessing a return to an even smaller S bike to fit into the entry level commuter range.
Given what they were saying about trying to address, entry level riders  I wouldn't be surprised to see a $7,999 or even
$6,999 price Model S

I can't see the point of this. You can buy a 1 brick, a 2 brick, a 3 brick, a 4 brick and a 5 brick bike already. If you want a 1 or 2 brick bike for commuting then buy the FXS, why make a 2 brick S (or DS). To drive the S motor you need the 3 bricks.

Given the choice between a 2 brick S or an FXS, I'd get the FXS.

[grmarks]

Just saw this on the Zero users facebook page.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/new-farasis-pouch-cell-balances-power-and-energy-density/

Could we get a 10 or 20% increase in battery for 2017?
14.3 or 15.6 for a S/DS/SR/DSR and 7.3 or 7.9 for FX/FXS.

[grmarks]

Some speculation on the above.
If the pouches are 25% thinner then the monolith could be 5 bricks.
4 bricks are 13kw/h add the 10% in extra power and we have 14.3kw/h plus an extra brick at 3.575 = 17.875 (17.9) kw/h.

But I have no idea if they are thinner or not. I live in hope!   

[protomech]

Hey all. First post here, but I've been lurking around for awhile. I work for a Zero dealer, and am our resident "Zero Hero" here.

Welcome Champions are very important at dealers, it seems like many dealers aren't lucky enough to have one..

I did manage to find a link to what appears to be someone doing some web design for Zero on their '17 models. Either they didn't change a whole lot, or they didn't give out the new specs...

https://dribbble.com/shots/2947603-Zero-Motorcycles-Jason-Kirtley-Dribbb/attachments/612472

Looks like mostly existing ad copy, and a design concept. Don't think it has any actual 2017 info.

https://dribbble.com/shots/2947603-Zero-Electric-Motorcycles

Recent design concept for Zero Motorcycles. Zero Motorcycles is making the next steps in motorcycle evolution. They take traditional style motorcycles, put some really technological advancements into them, and out comes some amazing electric high performance bikes that are crafted in California. Had a lot of fun working on this one (especially the hero area). The model shown on this product page is the Zero FX which is a dual mode enduro bike. This allowed me to play off the idea of city and off-road trail riding throughout the design.

***

Re: Farasis 32 Ah cells

I think the "25% smaller" quote refers to an older battery system that was replaced by the new cells. The 32 Ah cells are probably the same dimensions as the 2016 29 Ah cells.

A 3 brick 29 Ah bike would have similar capacity to a 4 brick 2013-2014 bike, and a 4 brick 32 Ah bike would have more capacity than a 2014 Power Tank bike. Neat!

If Zero already has samples and these can be produced in volume - Zero probably needs a couple thousand cells a day when building up for a product launch - then they might show up in the 2017 bikes. Seems a little unlikely this late in the year, but Farasis and Zero have a good relationship so who knows.

Could we get a 10 or 20% increase in battery for 2017?

10% if Zero selects the 32 Ah cells for 2017. 20% not without a larger enclosure. Six brick anyone? And then a 15 hour L1 charge?

[grmarks]

If Zero already has samples and these can be produced in volume - Zero probably needs a couple thousand cells a day when building up for a product launch - then they might show up in the 2017 bikes. Seems a little unlikely this late in the year, but Farasis and Zero have a good relationship so who knows.

10% if Zero selects the 32 Ah cells for 2017. 20% not without a larger enclosure. Six brick anyone? And then a 15 hour L1 charge?

How long had the 29ah cells been out for before Zero upgraded from 25ah to 29ah?

[protomech]

Not sure. I don't think the 29 Ah cells had been spotted on the forum before Zero announced the 2016 bikes.

[grmarks]

Not sure. I don't think the 29 Ah cells had been spotted on the forum before Zero announced the 2016 bikes.

Gives us hope then.

Just shows the pressure battery companies are under to improve each year.

[ZeroHero0]

Came in here to +1 the electric grom style bike.  I would love a 40 mile 65MPH monkey bike with swappable batteries, and would be happy to drop $5-6K on a Zero.  I can get an e-grom for $1,200 but it uses SLA batteries and...well I'd rather support Zero.  With that being said my $$$ is gonna go somewhere in December - perhaps BOLT/Monday if they come up with a more ergonomic bike or GoGoro if they finally launch in the USA...not holding out on the Extrigger from Suzuki this year...maybe next.

Reasoning: Quick commute/city bike with limited highway capability that replaces the need for gas scooters, gets new riders/younger ones into the game at a lower price-point. 

Ultra easy to store, bring into an elevator etc...

[vinceherman]

Wishlist items

• Cruise Control
• Fairing/Windscreen  to make highway use bearable
• Reverse
• Optional Aero based tail with storage

I don't get the drive for super fast charging.  If plugging it in overnight is enough for my daily commute, then why the push for more?
My view here could be colored by the lack of quick charging stations on my typical routes.

How can cruise control not be included?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Wishlist items

• Cruise Control
• Fairing/Windscreen  to make highway use bearable
• Reverse
• Optional Aero based tail with storage

I don't get the drive for super fast charging.  If plugging it in overnight is enough for my daily commute, then why the push for more?
My view here could be colored by the lack of quick charging stations on my typical routes.

How can cruise control not be included?

Throttle lock accessories are available. I've installed an Atlas.

Making a cruise control is a systems integration problem with the Sevcon, which was designed for forklifts and trucks. It has some relevant capabilities, but making a simple reliable motorcycle solution takes engineering man-years. It'll happen.

Super fast charging is amazing when you can use it. It transforms electric motorcycling from commuting to something very close to touring.

Reverse is tricky, the controller can do it at least but I chalk this up to development priorities. It would be a nice aftermarket option. I'm hoping to visit Harlan for the setup.

Everything about aerodynamics can be an option. Maybe it will be for a while.

[grmarks]

Reverse is tricky, the controller can do it at least but I chalk this up to development priorities. It would be a nice aftermarket option. I'm hoping to visit Harlan for the setup.

Everything about aerodynamics can be an option. Maybe it will be for a while.

Yes, yes, options please!
You could have a faring like a sports bike (where you tuck down) and a faring for commuting (where you sit upright) and backwards compatible to 2014.