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Author Topic: <$20 Y-cable build  (Read 3572 times)

MrDude_1

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Re: &lt;$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2016, 01:14:17 AM »

I realized that you should mentioned the cost of tools used to build this, which would considerably exceed $20. Like the crimper.
You can get the crimper for $20... and its a tool for life.
Build two cables, sell one for $20 and get a free tool. lol

I am pretty sure for power cables that a $20 crimper is not safe.
http://www.amazon.com/Hobart-770122-Lug-Crimper/dp/B003V8BEUI

not a "normal" pliers style crimper... but $20.

people over-complicate things sometimes.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2016, 03:12:36 AM »

Anderson's website specifies some things about crimping in the Assembly Instructions and Crimp Specifications PDFs:

SBS-75X product page


The specs recommend a $200 crimp tool (1309G4) that is Anderson-branded. I'd like to hear a professional recommend a cheaper alternative, rather than "a $20 crimper will do" when I've literally seen a lead pop out of my Elcon charge connector.


I happen to love a phrase "anything worth doing is worth doing badly", but when it comes to power cables that can melt things very badly when arcing, I'm going to spend time making sure it won't ever fail that way. If you feel that's pedantic, I understand, but I want to make sure there's original information here to make a decision.
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Doug S

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2016, 03:44:16 AM »

$200 is actually pretty reasonable for a well-designed crimp tool. They generally have precision carbide anvils and some pretty low-tolerance ratcheting mechanisms to guarantee exactly the right amount of crimping force will be applied simultaneously to each of the anvils. Many of the mil-spec ones are upwards of $1000. If that seems too pricey for a tool you'll use once, maybe a few of us could go in for a single tool and mail it around when we need it.

Personally, I don't think it's pedantic at all, there's a lot of science in some seemingly simple stuff, and it needs to be right for maximum performance. I'm sure some people on this forum would disagree, however, and I was just apologizing to them up front.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2016, 04:27:24 AM »

$200 is actually pretty reasonable for a well-designed crimp tool. They generally have precision carbide anvils and some pretty low-tolerance ratcheting mechanisms to guarantee exactly the right amount of crimping force will be applied simultaneously to each of the anvils. Many of the mil-spec ones are upwards of $1000. If that seems too pricey for a tool you'll use once, maybe a few of us could go in for a single tool and mail it around when we need it.

Personally, I don't think it's pedantic at all, there's a lot of science in some seemingly simple stuff, and it needs to be right for maximum performance. I'm sure some people on this forum would disagree, however, and I was just apologizing to them up front.

Yeah, $200 plus the part costs for the components is still cheaper than OEM retail for a single splitter, and gives more flexibility. I also expected and found $600-$1000 crimp tools after I saw the look that Senior EE / EV builder gave to my embarrassingly detached Anderson plug. [my attitude comes from working on power distribution/electronics for US Navy nuclear reactors, BTW]
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Say10 15FX 16FXS

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2016, 05:12:59 AM »

Are these the right pins? I am familiar with several types of Anderson connectors but none I've dealt with had these smaller pins, just the heavy lugs.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Anderson-Power-Products%2f110G9%2f&qs=%2fha2pyFaduj7D5nNeDONP%2f2P2o8xqrtZM8TWx9ZPRzFTp18UBCMaFA%3d%3d

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firepower

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2016, 07:14:14 AM »

No they are to reinforce the plastic housing.
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MrDude_1

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2016, 08:50:00 PM »

When in doubt, solder it out.

Not to get too pedantic, but a (properly!) crimped joint is actually better than a soldered, or even a crimped AND soldered joint. Crimp connectors are carefully designed to allow just enough movement to prevent strand breakage due to fatigue; this is part of the "strain relief" design that every connector needs. Soldered connections constrain the wire too much, it will flex only at one point and will eventually break just where the strand emerges from the solder. Additionally, crimping a connector causes several small cold welded connections, and the resistance of the connection is actually lower than a soldered joint. NASA and the military do not allow soldering crimp connectors.

Realistically, we aren't building for NASA or even making our own airplanes, so soldering them is probably perfectly adequate. Just be aware that a quality crimping tool might be a good investment, and might prevent a breakdown on the road someday.

Just throwing some experience in..
While this is 100% true and any aircraft mechanic, or automotive engineer will agree.. the problem is that we are not using carefully designed quality crimp connectors. They will never fold over into the wire and compact it until its almost fused into a single part.

There are 2 connections on every wire connector.
Electrical connection
Mechanical connection.


Electrical connection:
If you were to measure the electrical connection carefully before and after soldering, you would see an improvement. Most of the time it doesnt matter, but when you're talking 40+ amps, its a measurable drop. So soldering does help this... however it is NOT a replacement or even a helper for the mechanical connection.



Mechanical connection:
A proper mechanical connection means you can pull the wire and it will break before it comes out. The power of the crimp should exceed the tensile strength of the copper wire. If its not, you're doing it wrong.
That said, the copper wire will break if you solder it, unless there is strain relief. 

For most DIY home connectors there is strain relief, in the form of two crimps. if you only solder the first crimp, the one closest to the connector, the second can act as a strain relief. You will never see vibration/flex induced failure as long as you dont solder into or past the 2nd crimp.

but what if there are no second crimps?  then you add an additional strain relief. a simple example would be slipping a piece of flexible plastic tubing over the wire and crimp and heatshrinking it in place. If the crimp is on a connector pin, then place the strain relief on all the wires after the connector, and include the connector in the heatshrink.



None of this is hard, but it does require some thought. I have been making custom electrical devices for 13+ years now for other forum/hobbists, and I've never had a wire failure from vibration... and most of my devices and harnesses are on sportsbikes and drag cars... things with large vibration and shock hits... and street cars that see a good bit of miles.

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Doug S

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2016, 11:30:14 PM »

Are these the right pins?

Firepower's right, that's just a pin to lock the connector bodies together.

Not sure exactly which connector is in use, but it's probably the PP75, so the contacts are shown on page 2 of this pdf:  http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/22/ds-pp75-771539.pdf

Notice that there are two different contacts, the regular length and the ground length, which is 2mm longer. That's to make sure the ground connection is made first, which is generally the safest way to connect high-power interfaces.
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LiveandLetDrive

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2016, 05:36:02 AM »

Unless a different bike than mine uses PP75 connectors, SBS75X is what you want, which only has two power pins and they're only in one length.  The small "Powermod" or auxiliary pins come in different lengths, hence my consternation,

I generally agree about crimper quality however this little beauty is a different story.  It's NOT idiot-proof and takes some practice (buy extra pins, they're cheap!) but with some hammer finesse I think they can provide a very good crimp on large terminals.  For the small stuff I was using a ratcheting crimper but being two-sided (rather than having three or more jaws) it flattens the crimp out which has caused me trouble sliding the small pins into the housing.  I'm going to solder the small stuff once I get my longer pins as they aren't high-current anyway.  http://www.amazon.com/Hobart-770122-Lug-Crimper/dp/B003V8BEUI

All the part numbers you need are here, which you can translate to Newark, Mouser, or the Anderson store if you want.  Direct from Anderson is mostly cheapest but possibly slower.  See page 3 for the SBS75X auxiliary pins.  http://www.andersonpower.com/_global-assets/downloads/pdf/ds-sbs.pdf   The pins and sockets come sized for various wire gauges.  For example:  PN:  PM16P12A30   Part:   POWERMOD PIN 12 AWG PRE-MATE 9.3MM

I'll update when I've received the longer pins and rebuilt!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 05:38:56 AM by LiveandLetDrive »
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MrDude_1

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2016, 07:50:02 PM »

I generally agree about crimper quality however this little beauty is a different story.  It's NOT idiot-proof and takes some practice (buy extra pins, they're cheap!) but with some hammer finesse I think they can provide a very good crimp on large terminals.  For the small stuff I was using a ratcheting crimper but being two-sided (rather than having three or more jaws) it flattens the crimp out which has caused me trouble sliding the small pins into the housing.  I'm going to solder the small stuff once I get my longer pins as they aren't high-current anyway.  http://www.amazon.com/Hobart-770122-Lug-Crimper/dp/B003V8BEUI


You have to be careful not to overdo it, but that crimper also works great in the shop press. I use the small press with it in in there, and its perfect everytime.
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LiveandLetDrive

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Re: <$20 Y-cable build
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2016, 12:41:40 PM »

Good idea, I'm without a press at the moment but my big vice might have the reach.

Rebuilt the Y today but didn't test due to the power being out for going on 24hrs.  Ah, mountain living.  Good thing I bought two generators to charge the Zero on overnight camping trips!

What a difference 2mm makes, hope this does the trick:

« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 12:43:32 PM by LiveandLetDrive »
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