Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Doug S]

They see me when they're across my half of the road. Driver panics and slams brakes.

SO typical! Just going on their way, completely oblivious, until they're in the worst possible place, THEN they stop.

This is a country full of Trump voters.

[MrDude_1]

They see me when they're across my half of the road. Driver panics and slams brakes.

SO typical! Just going on their way, completely oblivious, until they're in the worst possible place, THEN they stop.

This is a country full of Trump voters.

You shouldn't drag politics into this. While I have no doubts that the majority of the members of this forum are left leaning, It has nothing to do with the subject matter.
That said, the entire policy of the liberal-left has centered around the idea that their beliefs are smarter and disagreeing with them means you are stupid. People dont want others to think they're stupid, so they follow like lemmings.
Considering that Hillary is the alternative to Trump, I would just shut up about the subject altogether just from embarrassment.

All that said, once more.. politics don't belong here.

[Kocho]

Now, that's an interesting way to avoid a crash. I don't think I understand the mechanics of it though. Wouldn't making such a sharp turn require at least as much traction as stopping in a straight line, something you say there isn't enough distance to do before you crash?

Such a turn would take you off the road, almost perpendicular to the road, so you better hope you are at an intersection or there's a field or something. If I were to do it on these hilly roads I'd go off into the ravine or into the cliff. And if you are going slow enough you will just tip over, even going 10-20mph.

I would imagine if someone is pulling out infront of you, you're at an intersection.
That example was just personal experience. Car pulls out without seeing me. They see me when they're across my half of the road. Driver panics and slams brakes. I cannot stop completely in time, so I slow, let off the brake, and throttle into a hard right right.... onto the same street she just pulled out from.

Theres no need for having your knee down on the street... but knowing proper body position is important. If you're touching your peg but not moving on the bike, you're giving up precious traction that could save your life.

[MrDude_1]

Now, that's an interesting way to avoid a crash. I don't think I understand the mechanics of it though. Wouldn't making such a sharp turn require at least as much traction as stopping in a straight line, something you say there isn't enough distance to do before you crash?

Such a turn would take you off the road, almost perpendicular to the road, so you better hope you are at an intersection or there's a field or something. If I were to do it on these hilly roads I'd go off into the ravine or into the cliff. And if you are going slow enough you will just tip over, even going 10-20mph.

I would imagine if someone is pulling out infront of you, you're at an intersection.
That example was just personal experience. Car pulls out without seeing me. They see me when they're across my half of the road. Driver panics and slams brakes. I cannot stop completely in time, so I slow, let off the brake, and throttle into a hard right right.... onto the same street she just pulled out from.

Theres no need for having your knee down on the street... but knowing proper body position is important. If you're touching your peg but not moving on the bike, you're giving up precious traction that could save your life.

Traction and distance are two totally different things.
I could apply more brake and stoppie up to the vehicle and stop.. or I can greatly reduce my speed, then turn. I chose to turn as I didnt know if there was anyone directly behind me. I dont want to stop in the middle of the road and make a squishie sandwich.

[Kocho]

OK, that makes sense to me now. I thought you were saying there is no way for you to stop but at the same time there is a way to reduce your speed and turn. Looks like there is a way to stop, just not ideal under the circumstances.

[togo]

You shouldn't drag politics into this.  ...  the liberal-left has centered around the idea that their beliefs are smarter ... once more.. politics don't belong here.

Wow.  The hypocrisy is amazing.

[Doug S]

Wow.  The hypocrisy is amazing.

Mine was the original sin which provoked his response and I hereby apologize to both Mr Dude and the group. I need to not say things like that in this forum, whether I think they're true or not.

[Killroy]

I pointed out before that at least on my SR, I was able to lower the rear brake pedal without compromising clearance any more than the regular foot peg. 

I tested it with "artificial lean" - cardboard. 

YRMV

If you are dragging pegs on a S/SR, then you need to hang off the bike.  There is less traction when you lean past the edge of the tire.  I still have little 2mm chicken strips, I don't hang off and I have never dragged pegs. 

[WoadRaider]

I would imagine if someone is pulling out infront of you, you're at an intersection.

Yeah, that would probably be the only time when such an extreme turn would be useful in everyday driving. But if that someone just stops in the road or pulls out from a driveway or other road that you can't turn into for one reason or another you'd be screwed. Better to try to fit between the cars/lanes or just slow down as much as possible and practice your superman style flying.

Theres no need for having your knee down on the street... but knowing proper body position is important. If you're touching your peg but not moving on the bike, you're giving up precious traction that could save your life.

Someone would have to explain this to me but I think you might have more leverage to easily pull out of a short sharp turn if you have your upper body upright or even in the other direction. Might not work well on sport style bikes given that they are slightly higher and easier to pull out of a turn anyway; I don't know that I've tried it.

This is a country full of Trump voters

We'll find out in November, but I doubt it.

You shouldn't drag politics into this. While I have no doubts that the majority of the members of this forum are left leaning, It has nothing to do with the subject matter.
That said, the entire policy of the liberal-left has centered around the idea that their beliefs are smarter and disagreeing with them means you are stupid. People dont want others to think they're stupid, so they follow like lemmings.
Considering that Hillary is the alternative to Trump, I would just shut up about the subject altogether just from embarrassment.
All that said, once more.. politics don't belong here.

No offense meant from the following, I'm just going to point this out because it's good fun. That is a completely hypocritical statement. You can't emphasize twice that we shouldn't talk politics and in the same breath talk politics. It would be one thing to refute his statement or counter it in equal measure but you can't bring in a whole new level of discussion and then cut it off to anyone else. There are many reasons as to why people think republicans are stupid, but the main legitimate one is that they have representatives like Louie Gohmert and Sara Palin and Michelle Balkman and Trey Goudy; plainly and depressingly unintelligent people. I would have said Trump fits into that same category but I'm not sure, he might be an extremely savvy con man who's just pretending to be a man child with the intellectual reasoning of a 3-yr old. Also keep in mind that just because someone is capable of recognizing Trump's rhetoric as childish that doesn't mean they support Shillary.

YRMV...I still have little 2mm chicken strips

YRMV? What's the acronym year/model? Also not sure what you mean by chicken strips.

[mrwilsn]

I've had foot pegs scrape the ground but that isn't (as far as I can conceptualize) anywhere near those angles; and that has only happened on very sharp turns; I wouldn't be going fast enough (or turning long enough) to feel comfortable shifting body position dramatically.
I really don't know, but I would think that changing your body position doesn't turn the bike faster/sharper unless it also leans the motorcycle. So it might make sense to be in that extreme position in order to get a more stable/controlled lean but it doesn't make sense, at least how I understand it right now, that you can lean the bike less and turn just as sharp or more sharply.

I need to set the record straight because it can save your life...

It might not seem logical to you (and a LOT of people) but the physics are real.  It doesn't turn the bike faster it allows the bike to be going faster without leaning as much.  It has to do with the gyroscopic affect from the wheels spinning.

If you keep your body upright and don't hang off your bike in a turn and you scrape pegs....taking the same turn, at the same speed but shifting weight to the inside you will not scrape pegs...seems weird but it's true!

Shifting your weight allows you to take a turn faster without leaning as much.  If you go into a turn too fast you should be shifting your weight FIRST before leaning harder.

It's important because shifting your weight to keep the bike from leaning as far in the turn means more tire patch on the road.

Don't confuse properly shifting weight with douchebags that hang their knee down just trying to get it to touch the ground in a turn.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[MichaelJohn]

Considering that Hillary is the alternative to Trump, I would just shut up about the subject altogether just from embarrassment.

All that said, once more.. politics don't belong here.

What's a matta dude, don't like women who are smarter than you?

Oops, political statement. (Disclaimer-I am neither Republican nor Democrat)

[WoadRaider]

I need to set the record straight because it can save your life...
It might not seem logical to you (and a LOT of people) but the physics are real.  It doesn't turn the bike faster it allows the bike to be going faster without leaning as much.  It has to do with the gyroscopic affect from the wheels spinning.

Thanks for trying but I'm still not getting it. Why am I trying to go faster in a turn? Especially if I'm not also turning as (or more) quickly... I'll end up going off the road or at least into the other lane; if I'm not turning fast/sharply enough. As I understand it there are several gyroscopic forces that come into play, which are you referencing?
 

It's important because shifting your weight to keep the bike from leaning as far in the turn means more tire patch on the road.

That I can understand, and that also might be where the discrepancy between our two understandings lays. If you lean further than the bike the weight which would otherwise be spread down the tire as it has more contact with the road is focused on the furthest left point that is already touching the ground. That would significantly increase the friction/traction at that point/line around the tire. Perhaps the weight causes that section of the tire to further warp/flatten, which might ever so slightly cause you to ride further up on the tire without actually leaning the wheel more. But that would be a very slight effect, not worth taking into consideration at likely everyday speeds. If I'm taking a sharp turn at 20-30mph I'd much rather be able to straighten the bike quickly (especially since most of the sharp turns I know are followed by straight road or turns in the opposite direction) than take the turn faster or lean the bike a little less.

If you keep your body upright and don't hang off your bike in a turn and you scrape pegs....taking the same turn, at the same speed but shifting weight to the inside you will not scrape pegs...seems weird but it's true!
Shifting your weight allows you to take a turn faster without leaning as much.  If you go into a turn too fast you should be shifting your weight FIRST before leaning harder.

That makes sense, but unless you can explain further I'm assuming that effect is just based on where the pressure is on the tire and that is only going to change your vector/angle very slightly when compared to leaning the bike. So yeah maybe you save something like 1 degree of lean but keep in mind that 45 degrees is a sharp turn and I'm not even sure our pegs hit at 45 degrees, it's somewhere around there; I’ve never scraped the pegs on this bike, only cruiser style motorcycles (not that I’ve ridden many) and bicycles. It makes much more sense just to slow down a little for regular riding. Obviously, professional racers would want to make the most of the effect (moving which part of the tire you ride on without leaning the wheel); since they are doing high speed turns for extended lengths with the goal of maximizing speed why not put your weight over the side of the vehicle. Not to mention it becomes somewhat of an athletic ability if you are switching from extreme right to extreme left turns.

[Kocho]

Let me ask the question a bit differently. Assume I am making a turn, I am upright, not shifting my weight to the inside of the turn. Still, that is not as fast/sharp, so my pegs will not scrape. However, the road is slippery just enough, say it is wet, so that the bike will slide from under me. Basically, I am taking the turn at a speed just a notch above the traction limit.

Now, assume I took the same turn in the same conditions, at the same speed, but this time I have shifted my weight inside the turn, so the bike is leaning less. Will I have more traction, potentially not sliding out? 

Here is where I'm going with this. Motorcycle tires are designed so that they have good traction upright as well as when leaned. Some actually have more traction when leaned vs. when upright. Assuming I have plenty of clearance for my pegs, is there any advantage in shifting my weight to minimize the lean angle? Specifically for the Zero OEM tires in street riding conditions.

[MrDude_1]

I need to set the record straight because it can save your life...
It might not seem logical to you (and a LOT of people) but the physics are real.  It doesn't turn the bike faster it allows the bike to be going faster without leaning as much.  It has to do with the gyroscopic affect from the wheels spinning.
If you keep your body upright and don't hang off your bike in a turn and you scrape pegs....taking the same turn, at the same speed but shifting weight to the inside you will not scrape pegs...seems weird but it's true!
Shifting your weight allows you to take a turn faster without leaning as much.  If you go into a turn too fast you should be shifting your weight FIRST before leaning harder.
It's important because shifting your weight to keep the bike from leaning as far in the turn means more tire patch on the road.
Don't confuse properly shifting weight with douchebags that hang their knee down just trying to get it to touch the ground in a turn.

BINGO. and that was all I was trying to get across.

The other half of that is traction. the more your bike leans over, the less physical area of rubber is on the road. You only need a postage stamp amount for racetrack speeds under ideal conditions, but the road is never ideal. There will be sand, drippings, paint, metal covers, etc. You dont WANT the bike leaned over that far.

So by leaning your weight out over the side properly, the bike stays more upright.
The upright bike has more traction AND more lean angle left to go.
so now you have less chance of the bike washing out from under you AND if you have to tighten your line up further, you can.

Let me ask the question a bit differently. Assume I am making a turn, I am upright, not shifting my weight to the inside of the turn. Still, that is not as fast/sharp, so my pegs will not scrape. However, the road is slippery just enough, say it is wet, so that the bike will slide from under me. Basically, I am taking the turn at a speed just a notch above the traction limit.

Now, assume I took the same turn in the same conditions, at the same speed, but this time I have shifted my weight inside the turn, so the bike is leaning less. Will I have more traction, potentially not sliding out? 

Here is where I'm going with this. Motorcycle tires are designed so that they have good traction upright as well as when leaned. Some actually have more traction when leaned vs. when upright. Assuming I have plenty of clearance for my pegs, is there any advantage in shifting my weight to minimize the lean angle? Specifically for the Zero OEM tires in street riding conditions.

YES. Your initial assumption of traction when leaned is incorrect.  The bike has more traction when upright slightly, compared to all the way over.. HOWEVER what is even more important is that your weight better positioned. Properly positioned not only is to the side, but also slightly forward. If you just went directly to the side, the rear tire would be overloaded compared to the front. If you "kiss the mirror" with your body, your weight moves forward. the front and rear tires are equally loaded, and the bike will do a nice controllable 2 wheel drift if you were still slightly exceeding the traction limit. That said, sliding is a very fine line that you do NOT want to be doing on the street.

This touches on the unintuitive nature of motorcycle physics.
Am I saying you should be hanging off like a monkey driving around town? No.

What I am saying though, is you should know how, because one day you're going to come around a turn you've done 1000 times, but theres dirt on the road. or a dog. or something. when you lean the bike slides, and your reaction needs to be unintuitive. You should throw your body down more and stand the bike up some. Its not natural. It feels even less natural if you ride bolt upright, compared to someone that normally rides a sportbike. But the physics remain he same.

if you continue to ride a bike down to the peg scraping at speed, while sitting upright on the bike, you may be able to get away with it... since "peg scraping" isnt very low on a stock bike, and its likely you're going slow.  Just know that you are giving up a window of traction and limiting your options.

edit: I just googled real quick for a video. This may be more "racetrack" oriented, but just imagine your traction being limited due to the poor environment, instead of high speed.



incidentally, in the US atleast.. every sportbike comes with 3" long feeler extensions on the pegs to make them hit WAAAY early. I wonder if there is some law that says they have to touch by a specific lean angle. Does anyone know?

[MrDude_1]

as for the rest of the political stuff above.. eh, thats why I hate the bullshit.

this however isnt political:

What's a matta dude, don't like women who are smarter than you?

I love them. My wife is the smartest woman I ever met. Its one of the reasons I married her.
Shes also absolutely trustworthy, compassionate but tough, and has the kind of integrity to do the right thing that I view as an inspiration.

To imply that the gender of a candidate has anything to do with my opinion of them is an insult directly to me. I'll await your apology.