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[Doug S]

Holy crap that's less than 40 miles from me. Email time.

Response from Dutch at Airtech:

Hi Doug,
No time for such a project right now (I wish!). Thanks for the offer though.

(I'd offered to let him use my bike as a test subject.) So much for that idea. I think we're just too small of a market.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Holy crap that's less than 40 miles from me. Email time.

Response from Dutch at Airtech:

Hi Doug,
No time for such a project right now (I wish!). Thanks for the offer though.

(I'd offered to let him use my bike as a test subject.) So much for that idea. I think we're just too small of a market.

Thanks for trying, although that's disappointing. I'd take that response at face value, that he's just booked with projects in his normal line of work/interests. Their business doesn't seem set up for opportunities like these.

I think our best bet right now will be Mike Corbin.  He already owns a 2015 Zero for a fairing project he was going to work on for Zero with Craig Vetter.  They both were going to design it, and his fairing shop was going to make to molds to produce it.

Corbin's in my (and many others') range. What can we do to move that process forward, even if it just means mounting solutions?

[Killroy]

A full streamliner definitely can have handling issues with cross winds. 

On the Last Vetter Fairing Pages, Vetter said that cross winds were not a big issue as people thought and his theory was that the long tail would steer the bike into the cross wind and the bike would be stable.  I need to find his quote. 

Can you confirm this effect, Terry even if just partially?  I wonder if the shorter Kam tail reduces cross wind stability, or is it a zero sum game.

[sendler]

For one thing, it is only a cross wind when the bike is parked or going very slowly. Which makes it easier for a bike with a big tail to blow off of the stand. When the bike is moving forward at 60 mph, a 30 mph cross wind will combine it's effect with the head wind and seem to be gusting fromm 22.5 degrees off of the nose of the bike. Getting the side area too high is a problem though since bikes corner by leaning. And a high center of  pressure from the side allows any side force that is generated to push the top of the bike more than the bottom so it leans and steers with the wind and moves over the wrong way. Luckily any good bike tends to lean into a side wind automatically due to the trail in the front geometry so the trick with a tail is to keep it from getting so high that it defeats this.
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Another issue with a pure streamlined shape is that it is now a symetrical wing that will make lift (side) when side winds give the air an angle of attack. Many modern sport bikes have sharp corners sticking forward beside the headlight which will tend to spoil the attached flow only in side winds to reduce the lift (side).
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As to the side wind performance of a trucated tail versus a full tail Craig or Terry would know since they have tried it both ways. My low and truncated tail on my CBR250R is a complete non issue in side winds with the only difference being slightly subdued automatic lean in response to gusty little side winds which I think feels different just because of the extra mass about the roll axis.
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[Killroy]

 

My low and truncated tail on my CBR250R is a complete non issue in side winds with the only difference being slightly subdued automatic lean in response to gusty little side winds which I think feels different just because of the extra mass about the roll axis.
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Nice post.  You say your tail is repetitively low to a Vetter?  Its still fairly high, so that's good that you don't have a cross wind problem.

[sendler]

It's only 16 inches higher than the seat and I have ridden through some major storms with no crosswind issues. It feels pretty much the same as stock except for the weight. I only gained 8% efficiency but it is nice to have the locking storage. I am planning to build a newer design with a more pure compound shape off of a mold. I was averaging about 103 mpgUS last summer in the better weather.
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http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/honda/cbr250r/2011/sendler/78563
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Carrying a useful load is key to getting more use out of your bike. I have a simple DIY plank style system I use on my other bikes.
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[Electric Terry]

A full streamliner definitely can have handling issues with cross winds. 

On the Last Vetter Fairing Pages, Vetter said that cross winds were not a big issue as people thought and his theory was that the long tail would steer the bike into the cross wind and the bike would be stable.  I need to find his quote. 

Can you confirm this effect, Terry even if just partially?  I wonder if the shorter Kam tail reduces cross wind stability, or is it a zero sum game.

While on paper it appears that a long tail helps pivot the bike on the rear tire to face into the wind easier, I noticed that with a longer tail I just had to be more aware of crosswinds than without.  The Kamm tail was easier to manage in strong winds.  The more weight you carry, the easier it becomes and more resistant to winds you become.  When I would load the bike up to weigh almost 1200 pounds with extra batteries, chargers, charge cables and steel brackets it was more rock steady than people on standard ninja 250's I would go ride with.  But when I'd strip it down and ride it it became a little twitchy, especially riding 20-40 feet behind a tractor trailer truck.  It would shake rapidly side to side faster than I could correct.  It was kind of cool actually.

However, the full tail was great for storing stuff.  As sendler said, the most useful motorcycle is one that you can carry things and never have to drive a car.  Although it had to stick out the front of the seat back rest, carrying 8 foot sections of 2 X 4 lumber and 6 foot sections of tube and angle steel was very useful with the big tail.

My streamliner bike is down at the Vetters shop.  I've only been down to visit once since his accident, and he hasn't worked in his shop since then either.  Perhaps later this summer I can get it back on the road again.

[sendler]

While on paper it appears that a long tail helps pivot the bike on the rear tire to face into the wind easier, I noticed that with a longer tail I just had to be more aware of crosswinds than without.  The Kamm tail was easier to manage in strong winds.

We had this discussion a few years ago on Ecomodders and it is interesting to hear Terry confirm my suspicions. Bikes are complicated because they don't turn by steering. They counter steer and turn by leaning. So by trying to pivot the front of the bike into the wind around the axis of the rear tire patch, you would be applying a force to the front end trail that will make the front wheel turn into the wind. Seems benaficial but it is actually exactly what you don't want because the resulting gyroscopic precession  and countersteering movement of the front wheel out from under the bike into the wind will cause the bike to lean with the wind and corner with the wind. The opposite of what you want.
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There is no question about the aero superiority of a full streamline though. You can however make a shorter airfoil than what Craig was using if you incorporate the complex curves that he chose to avoid for reasons of practicality. Vetterism #1 "don't make it more trouble than it is worth". Although I am anxious to replace my straight sided tail with a glass over mold true airfoil which would mount on the rear seat, truncated leave the stock license plate visible on most bikes that use the rear fender on a stalk scheme, and have optional side panels to fit right over the stock signals. Of any bike. It will be a bolt through the rear seat or to a rack system that could remove or install in a few minutes.
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 You can retain an excellent drag coefficient with truncation of 20%. 30% is still pretty good and gives you a flat width enough to fit a license plate in the normal position and makes the bike easier to park and less likely to blow off of the stand.

[Erasmo]

Holy crap that's less than 40 miles from me. Email time.

Response from Dutch at Airtech:

Hi Doug,
No time for such a project right now (I wish!). Thanks for the offer though.

(I'd offered to let him use my bike as a test subject.) So much for that idea. I think we're just too small of a market.

That is a bit of a bummer but understandable. Maybe you can pop by and see if a few of their universal mountings will fit with the right brackets?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Holy crap that's less than 40 miles from me. Email time.

Response from Dutch at Airtech:

Hi Doug,
No time for such a project right now (I wish!). Thanks for the offer though.

(I'd offered to let him use my bike as a test subject.) So much for that idea. I think we're just too small of a market.

That is a bit of a bummer but understandable. Maybe you can pop by and see if a few of their universal mountings will fit with the right brackets?

If their UB1 universal mounting bracket fit the Zero, and could load up the DBL2 dustbin fairing, I'd make out a check to get them, that's for sure. I've been trying to understand how the UB1 is used in the first place.

FWIW, one reason I installed a front fender brace was to see about mounting a fairing.

[Burton]

The UB1 is rather simple and elegant in design.

The right hand side of the bracket will site against your head tube (thing your handlebars run through) on the FRONT of the bike.

The U-Bolt(s) then comes in from behind it sandwiching the head tube between the bolts and the rounded right side of the UB1.

You then mount your headlight on the two rail openings, drill two holes in the extra tabs toward the LEFT of the image and attach your brackets to mount the fairing. If you find you need to move the whole thing forward you slide it forward on the square tubing provided.

Once you have the "fit" set you drill a hole through the square tubing and throw a bolt through it to keep it in place.

You likely will still need to create extra mounting brackets toward the bottom of your battery area to better mount one of these.

I am half tempted to weld one of these up myself for my vetter project if I find I need one. My mounting solution will be a bit different though.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

You likely will still need to create extra mounting brackets toward the bottom of your battery area to better mount one of these.

I am half tempted to weld one of these up myself for my vetter project if I find I need one. My mounting solution will be a bit different though.

Thanks; that is a good explanation. I think I was confused in expecting that it solved more than that part of the mounting.

[gasdive]

I'd just like to add my own +1 to this.

If I could buy a fairing that I could fit in a couple of hours without cutting up or drilling holes in my bike I'd buy one. It would need to just bolt on. I can't fabricate things to save my life. Well I can, but only if it's something that can be made with cable ties and rubber straps. I think I'd pay three thousand USD for it (but I'd prefer it was cheaper).

I'd like a Vetter/Hershner streamliner, with a Kamm/cutoff tail.

I really need this. I have a regular trip that's just under 800 km return. The DS 11.4 I'm riding can just struggle to make the 140 km between charging opportunities, but I have to ride at a dramatically reduced speed to do it. Being able to make that distance at 100 km/h instead of 50-60 km/h would make a *huge* difference. 4 hours riding with 4 hours charging each way, yes. I could do it there and back in 24 hours rather than staying overnight.

[Electric Terry]

I'd just like to add my own +1 to this.

If I could buy a fairing that I could fit in a couple of hours without cutting up or drilling holes in my bike I'd buy one. It would need to just bolt on. I can't fabricate things to save my life. Well I can, but only if it's something that can be made with cable ties and rubber straps. I think I'd pay three thousand USD for it (but I'd prefer it was cheaper).

I'd like a Vetter/Hershner streamliner, with a Kamm/cutoff tail.

I really need this. I have a regular trip that's just under 800 km return. The DS 11.4 I'm riding can just struggle to make the 140 km between charging opportunities, but I have to ride at a dramatically reduced speed to do it. Being able to make that distance at 100 km/h instead of 50-60 km/h would make a *huge* difference. 4 hours riding with 4 hours charging each way, yes. I could do it there and back in 24 hours rather than staying overnight.

Hey gasdive, I completely agree with you.  But for now, before something is easily available there are 2 things you can do to help right away.

If you can source high power electricity along the way (240 volts and at least 30 amps) then I'd suggest carrying around an Elcon charging kit from Hollywood Electrics.  There will be a powertank area charger available in the future, but the Elcons are available today and been a lifesaver for tons of Zero owners for over 3 years now without issues.  You can carry them any way you like, but they easily fit in the E21 side cases that Zero sells.  I've seen people get real creative with this.

If you don't have high power electricity available then I would suggest at least upgrading from an 11.4 kWh battery bike to a bigger one.  Also unless you need the DS for off road use, I would suggest a S or SR.  The slightly lower height and narrower handlebars offer less aero drag and the smoother road tires offer less rolling resistance and so the range is improved.

If you have a 2013 DS 11.4 which is the biggest battery you can get that year, the 90 km/h range is 122 km
The 2013/2014 11.4 S range at 90 km/h is 137 km
The 2016 13.0 DS range at 90 km/h is 142 km
The 2016 13.0 S or SR range at 90 km/h is 158 km
And the 2016 13.0 S or SR with powertank at 90 km/h is 193 km


So I would first consider a fast charging option.  If you later upgrade your bike, the Elcons will work on all year Zero's 2013 and up. 

If you don't have the high power electricity available at every stop, then upgrade from a 2013 DS to 2016 S or SR for a 63% greater range than you have now!!!!   (193 km vs 122 km)

This alone would be huge!!!!  If you are making it 140 km now between charging spots, with a 2016 S you could go 228 km at the same speed, or make the 140 km at what ever speed you want.  The 2016 S with powertank range is 158 km at full freeway speed of 113 km/h (70 mph).  But to do 800 km in less than 24 hours, you will still need to charge faster.  But being able to charge faster and make it the 140 km between stops at a comfortable speed is ideal.

It may be a while before an easy to install, yet significant aerodynamic improvement is available, so to make your life easier, I would strongly consider one or preferably both of those options which each are in the approximate ball park of what you said you would spend on a fairing but are available now. 

If you would like to do a newer bike and fast chargers but can't afford both, another option would be to get a gently used 2015 S with powertank which has a 90 km/h range of 185 km, and still gives you the suspension, ABS brakes, and better dash display to estimate range.  I can't praise the 2015's battery/powertrain management system enough. 

I have asked on the forum many times and I don't think anyone has ever run out to where the bike stopped running on a 2015 or newer S, DS or SR.  I've tried quite a few times riding many miles at 0% battery remaining and it just progressively goes slower and slower but just keeps going and going.  This is a drastic difference from the 2014's and before which sometimes will jump from 10% battery to 0% as soon as a single cell hits its low voltage minimum, so I'd definitely recommend a 2015 or newer just for the range confidence.

When better aerodynamics are available you can later do that too if you wish and you will be winning at every angle.   But remember, aerodynamics alone will not get you 800 km in 24 hours.  Neither will a bike with bigger battery.  They both help a lot, but what you really need is faster charging. 

Even a Vetter streamline kit that doubles your range, it acts as if your battery is twice as big (you can go twice as far) and at a charge location it acts as if your charger is twice as fast (you're filling a battery half the size of one you would need to go that distance you just travelled).  So if sourcing high power electricity is hard, this is a better way than carrying twice the battery and twice the charging and needing twice the power to get the same result.

I love this stuff, it's all about making the modifications to personalize the bike to your specific needs, and figuring that out is the fun part!  Anything is possible.

Good luck gasdive!  I look forward to hearing what you decide!  Doing 800 km on an electric motorcycle in 24 hours is huge, and very rewarding! I can't wait to one day soon have you post that you did it!  And then of course everyone will ask you how...

[Erasmo]

Somebody only 40km away from me is selling a Windjammer for only €40, that is a tempting price. I might use that as a base to add some extra fairing on the lower end.