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[mguw]

Hello

I broke my Fx belt on a harder jump landing so i thought it was a good idea to switch to a chain kit, what I did.

But disappointment is high because of very loud noise and loss of power.

Not anymore this gliding over the road feeling and you really feel the power lost in the transmission.

So my question is,  will this improve after some running in,  or shall I switch back directly?

A+ Marcel

[protomech]

In theory chain drive should be slightly more efficient than belt.

Is it possible the chain is binding somewhere? It's properly lubed, tensioned, etc? Does the wheel turn freely when the bike is off and the rear wheel is off the ground?

[MostlyBonkers]

Hi promo, any idea why a chain is more efficient than a belt? It doesn't make sense to me. I've also noticed that a slack belt can reduce efficiency. I can understand if it started slipping, but otherwise that doesn't make sense to me either. I'm confused!

[protomech]

Hi promo, any idea why a chain is more efficient than a belt? It doesn't make sense to me. I've also noticed that a slack belt can reduce efficiency. I can understand if it started slipping, but otherwise that doesn't make sense to me either. I'm confused!

I think there is slightly more friction between a pulley and a belt than between a sprocket and a chain. Even a narrow belt like the Zero's.

Here's some analysis from a pedal bike perspective.
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/chain-or-belt-drive-which-is-faster-36074/

By his measurements, a conventional chain drive consumes 2.92 watts on average, while the belt eats up 3.93 watts.

That's under a 250 watt load - the chain is 98.8% efficient, while the belt is 98.4% efficient.

The chain kit - if the same installed on the 2013 MX - is 65T/12T, slightly larger ratio than the 132/25 pulley. This will shift the power peak down on the wheel RPM range, meaning more torque at low speeds and less torque at high speeds. But we're still talking about a 2.5% difference in ratios.

However, this efficiency difference and ratio difference is well below the threshold where I would notice. I suspect either something is defective with the kit or install, and inspecting unloaded rear wheel rotation may be helpful.

[mguw]

Hi promo

Yes the chain is lubricated and tensioned to spec.   I really feel a loss of power, slightly covered by the shorter ratio,  but that doesn't fool me on the power.

I believe it is all coming from the oring frictions and may be they need to wear in?

A+ Marcel

[pres68y]

Chains are inherently prone to make more noise particularly if they get a bit loose.
The lubricant used on a chain can absorb a few horsepower if it is very thick oil or if it's an 'o' ring chain.
Also thick chain oil will make the chain live longer but you pay for it in reduced horsepower.
I use a light Teflon-based lubricant just for minimizing power loss but it requires I lube it about every time I ride .. plus it is more messy.
However, I use it just for dirt track racing so a chain is necessary.

For street riding I would select a belt because it's quiet and minimal maintenance.
For racing I think a chain is best for changing ratios and resistance to foreign objects (rocks, mud, etc)

[mguw]

Yes I might try thinner lubricant

A+ Marcel

[rayivers]

But disappointment is high because of very loud noise and loss of power.
Not anymore this gliding over the road feeling and you really feel the power lost in the transmission.

+1, Marcel - I feel your pain.   When I first rode my 'MX' dirt bike with the chain drive, I thought the rear brake was dragging.  In comparison, my FX street bike just 'glides' as you pointed out - a bit quicker acceleration, easier coasting, and takes longer to roll to a stop.  Some of it's surely gearing and tires on my bikes, but IMO the belt definitely has a different (& better) feel. 

My chain seems to have less drag before I lube it (Maxima Chain Guard, love this stuff!), but it's also a little noisier and surely wearing a bit faster too so I lube it after every ride.  I've never used an O-ring chain, but my understanding was that a new O-ring chain has more drag than an equivalent new non-O-ring chain of the same brand (note the italics).

I've been looking into a semi-enclosed 16mm belt setup with tension control, but it will surely be wicked expensive and add significant weight to the swingarm, among other issues.  I've used chains all my life and am used to the maintenance, but every time I ride the other bike I want a belt.

Ray

[rayivers]

Chains are inherently prone to make more noise particularly if they get a bit loose.
The lubricant used on a chain can absorb a few horsepower if it is very thick oil or if it's an 'o' ring chain.
Also thick chain oil will make the chain live longer but you pay for it in reduced horsepower.
I use a light Teflon-based lubricant just for minimizing power loss but it requires I lube it about every time I ride .. plus it is more messy.
However, I use it just for dirt track racing so a chain is necessary.

For street riding I would select a belt because it's quiet and minimal maintenance.
For racing I think a chain is best for changing ratios and resistance to foreign objects (rocks, mud, etc)

+1 on everything.  Sometimes I wish I'd never ridden a belt-drive bike.

That's a cool bike you have!  Have you done anything with the controller programming or electronics?  Mine's bone-stock in that department except for app tweaking, maybe someday...

Ray

[odedmaz]

Too bad there is no belt emergency repair kit, like the Hurley's have 
No worries going off road on a belt equiped FX with such a kit

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[BeezrGeezr]

Too bad there is no belt emergency repair kit, like the Hurley's have 
No worries going off road on a belt equiped FX with such a kit

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

I got one of those repair links for my Sportster. Pretty neat idea. Too bad it won't fit around the countershaft sprocket. Useless!

[mguw]

I got the idea that when putting back the belt I install a second belt around the swing arm and some how stored above to be ready for install in the field in case of emergency.  Haven't looked closed if this is doable.

A+
Marcel

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I got the idea that when putting back the belt I install a second belt around the swing arm and some how stored above to be ready for install in the field in case of emergency.  Haven't looked closed if this is doable.

Better to keep it in a tank or tail bag where it won't weather as much before you [hopefully never] need it. I have a spare belt for upcoming travel plans.

[grmarks]

Hi promo, any idea why a chain is more efficient than a belt? It doesn't make sense to me. I've also noticed that a slack belt can reduce efficiency. I can understand if it started slipping, but otherwise that doesn't make sense to me either. I'm confused!

I think there is slightly more friction between a pulley and a belt than between a sprocket and a chain. Even a narrow belt like the Zero's.

Here's some analysis from a pedal bike perspective.
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/chain-or-belt-drive-which-is-faster-36074/

By his measurements, a conventional chain drive consumes 2.92 watts on average, while the belt eats up 3.93 watts.

That's under a 250 watt load - the chain is 98.8% efficient, while the belt is 98.4% efficient.

The chain kit - if the same installed on the 2013 MX - is 65T/12T, slightly larger ratio than the 132/25 pulley. This will shift the power peak down on the wheel RPM range, meaning more torque at low speeds and less torque at high speeds. But we're still talking about a 2.5% difference in ratios.

However, this efficiency difference and ratio difference is well below the threshold where I would notice. I suspect either something is defective with the kit or install, and inspecting unloaded rear wheel rotation may be helpful.

I am not surprised that a bicycle chain is more efficient than that belt in the link. That belt is huge, way thicker than the zero belt. If you used a similar sized belt to the zero (but scaled down for the power of the bicycle) the belt would be more efficient!

I have always believed a toothed belt to be more efficient than a chain that's why so many cars moved away from a chain to a toothed belt to drive the cam shaft. But a V belt is a different story, they have more losses than the toothed belt. Also compare a bicycle chain to a motor bike chain, the bicycle chain is tiny in comparison.

If you compared a motor bike chain to that chunky belt I bet even that chunky belt would be more efficient. Then the zero belt would be more efficient again.   

[mguw]

Hi

I ran my usual work commute today and power usage ends to be the same.   May be it is just the feeling due to the loud noise that it glides less.

Brian, the belt is around the suspension arm shaft.   No way to get it on in the fields

A+ Marcel