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[stevewp]

Some of you will have seen my findings so far on another topic

 http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5190.new;topicseen#new

But it seemed sensible to create a topic of it's own for this.

The summary so far:

I work 35 miles from home. The route I generally take involves a fair amount of dual carriageway and a decent amount of the rest of the journey allows me to ride at 60-70, so the majority of the ride is at speeds which rip through the range of the Zero. Here's a link to my route, with a little artistic license on the start and end points, for privacy.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/52.4419439,-2.1610694/52.1133346,-1.9407115/@52.1440648,-2.0769161,13z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1399216!2d52.4328473!3s0x48709185c6aee6ef:0xa80538e4ac8eb9e3!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1451894!2d52.4173877!3s0x48709224b6ae880d:0x740462f26f00a660!1m0!3e0?hl=en

The first day, on my way in to work (temperature 2C) I left it in Eco mode and had 45% battery remaining.
On the night, in Custom mode with everything set to max, I had 33-35% when I got home. I had ridden it quite hard.

On the second morning, in Custom mode with the Closed Throttle Regen set to 0 (something I've read from owners as achieving the best efficiency) I had 37% battery remaining when I arrived at work. I had taken it fairly easy but not too ginger.

That night, I tried a different route

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/52.4419439,-2.1610694/52.1133346,-1.9407115/@52.2677068,-2.178059,13z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m15!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1399216!2d52.4328473!3s0x48709185c6aee6ef:0xa80538e4ac8eb9e3!3m4!1m2!1d-2.1451894!2d52.4173877!3s0x48709224b6ae880d:0x740462f26f00a660!3m4!1m2!1d-2.2126928!2d52.3475636!3s0x48708d31df9a6225:0x1c27e222fdd28546!1m0!3e0?hl=en

There is a lot less dual carriageway and the average speeds are lower.

On that night, the was a fair wind and torrential rain. I ran Custom mode with 0 regen on closed throttle again, but everything else set to max. I got home with 50% battery. I was very happy.

This morning, temperature was 4C. Stuck with the new route and used Eco mode. 40% when I got to work. This was probably the most disappointing result. I had hoped to achieve more in Eco mode than the previous night's Custom mode. However, there was no rain (the roads were wet though) and the traffic was very light (as you'd expect at 7am on a Sunday morning in winter) so I suspect I maintained a higher average speed. Careless, when I am testing but there you go.

Tonight I will likely try Custom mode with everything set to max again, on the new route. This will be my last test as the bike goes back tomorrow.


Now, providing I can charge it at work (I've been able to do so sneakily this weekend but, if I buy one, I will need a proper, sanctioned charging point), there is no doubt that this bike will work well for me. I do have a level of concern about the, albeit unlikely, scenario of being called back home straight away when I've got to work. As MostlyBonkers said in the original thread - I also have never had to turn straight round in all the donkeys years I've been commuting for but, with 5 kids, there is always a chance of it happening. However, I've proved that it CAN be done with 50% charge, so there is a safety net. Realistically though, I am unlikely to ride quite as gently as I did when I achieved that, on a normal day.

A power tank would probably see me just over that hurdle but at £2100, can I really justify that extra expense? Plus, this is a brand new bike. It only had 18 miles on it when I got hold of it. The battery is only going to deteriorate.

I do have to wonder if the semi-nobbly tyres on the DSR are the reason for reduced performance and range compared to the SR. With both bikes having the same power plant and being near identical in weight (5kg difference I think) why is it that both acceleration and top speed are down on the DSR? It can only be down to an inefficiency somewhere and the tyres seem to be the only real difference.

As for which of the two bikes I prefer, it's hard to say. I had a 2015 SR for one hour a few weeks ago. I absolutely loved it. But it's hard to directly compare the two when I haven't ridden them back-to-back and have had such different experiences on them both. If I were to be forced to make a choice, I'd probably go for the SR cos, on paper, it accelerates quicker, has a slightly higher top speed and has a slightly longer range. To my mind, you need to grab every advantage you can on this bike, when it comes to range. Or at least, you do if you're trying to do my journey.

As for the argument about regen on closed throttle - I get where the old owners are coming from, saying that you actually achieve greater efficiency when set to 0, but I don't like it and I haven't seen any improvement during my testing. I would just say it's down to personal preference. Try out different settings and see how you go.

This has become a real epic but I'm trying to be thorough and hope I haven't missed anything out. I have to say, Alex and Jason at Streetbike have been absolutely brilliant. Lending me a bike for 4 days is unbelievable and they deserve major praise.

[stevewp]

Ah yes, one more thing to say - the range is the ONLY negative thing on this bike. Aside from that, it really is the most perfectly setup bike I have ever ridden. It pulls like a litre+ bike but handles like a 400/600. Everything works precisely the way you think it should, but rarely does on other bikes. There are no nasty surprises. Simply put - it's my favourite bike of all time. Apart from the range.......

[Justin Andrews]

Were just at the point where electric bikes are becoming a practical equivalent to petrol bikes.
Range will only get slowly better, there is a lot of improvements that can be made in Lithium batteries alone.

[stevewp]

Yeah, I'm sure things will continue to improve as time goes on. Undoubtedly, waiting will allow me to buy a bike that will do the job. But, much like with pc's, mobile phones etc etc - there never really is a right or wrong time.

One thing going for the 2016 bike over last year's one is the temperature regulation. on the 2015 SR, the temp light was flashing for about 2/3 of my ride. On this bike, I haven't had it come on once. I have read that they've made improvements to it and it seems to have done the trick. Not that the flashing light caused me any problems (it only throttled me back once) but it's an indication that you haven't much left in the pot, so to speak.

[NEW2elec]

Yeah Stevewp the tires on the DSR will bring your range down a bit but it also has a higher ride height which catches more wind, thats the real killer.  I really like my DS wind screen it helps a bit with range but gives you a spot to tuck behind in rain and higher speeds.  It also helps cover the dash if its sitting parked it the rain.  I'd say ds is more comfortable and handles potholes and rough roads better and a little off road option may be appealing to some.  If range is your main concern go SR.  You could limit your top speed to 65MPH (I know not fun but better range).  Enjoy which ever one you get.  Oh and nice to hear about the new temp limits working in the real world even if it is winter.

[stevewp]

I did think I got more wind blast but wasn't sure if that was psychosomatic as, when I rode the SR I was just having loads of fun, whereas the DSR rides have been much more practical. So I thought maybe I just noticed it more now. I think though that, if I do go for it, the SR will be my choice.

I think a screen would be good but I really don't like the looks of the Zero ones. Maybe I just haven't seen them from the right angles.

[oobflyer]

I bet if you ask the folks that maintain the building at your place of employment they will be happy to allow you to charge. I ride to three different locations for my job and each time I asked they were happy to see an electric bike and happy to show me where I could charge.
As far as the battery degradation - I had a 2012 Zero for three years - didn't see any noticeable range degradation (other than the 'normal' range loss during the winter). Likewise with my '15 SR, but I'lve only had it for one year. Others with 2013-2014 bikes haven't complained of range losses.

As far as wind-screens - I saw a noticeable improvement in range after adding one on my 2012. (My '15 had one when I bought it).

[stevewp]

I have asked - I'm awaiting a reply......

It's good to hear you didn't see any drop-off. I hadn't expected the longevity of them to be quite so good - I had expected to see some sort of reduction in that timescale. So that's good.

Two people on the other thread said that they didn't see any difference in range with the cold weather. Which, again, is great as an owner, but dashed my hopes a little when I was excusing the poor range this weekend. What sort of losses have you seen at what temperatures?

How much is a noticeable improvement, would you say? I'd live with the ugliness for a decent improvement!

[MostlyBonkers]

Just out of interest, how long does your commute take Steve? Mine takes 50 minutes to do 24 miles.

In your situation I'd be tempted to go back and ask Jason if you can borrow the SR for a day or two for a proper comparison. I'm sure they'll be happy to accommodate you.

You're the first person I've seen to report on the improvements with the IPM motor. Thanks for that.  I think your commute warrants the IPM motor. Ideally I'd be getting a 2016 SR so I could continue using my M1 route rather than having to revert back to an older and shorter route that goes down the A1.  I'll try both on the DSP I'm getting but I just know it won't cope with 80+ on the M1 for 20 minutes.

An Elcon might be the answer for you. Just make sure you can get access to two power sockets at work. It will give you a 3.7kW charge rate for less than a grand. You could leave it at work and it will enable you to do day trips if you sling it in a backpack.

Also, are you counting on the subsidy? If not, then the subsidy might pay for an Elcon or even a power tank.

[Cortezdtv]

You can always just pop some s wheels on it and have the best of both worlds

[stevewp]

It takes a similar time to yours. It's a great run.

The SR was sold over Xmas so that's not an option unfortunately.

Will have to look into this Elcon. Haven't heard of it before. I will wait to see if the subsidy happens though it's not entirely dependent on it

Sent from my SM-T560 using Tapatalk

[Cortezdtv]

Just out of interest, how long does your commute take Steve? Mine takes 50 minutes to do 24 miles.

In your situation I'd be tempted to go back and ask Jason if you can borrow the SR for a day or two for a proper comparison. I'm sure they'll be happy to accommodate you.

You're the first person I've seen to report on the improvements with the IPM motor. Thanks for that.  I think your commute warrants the IPM motor. Ideally I'd be getting a 2016 SR so I could continue using my M1 route rather than having to revert back to an older and shorter route that goes down the A1.  I'll try both on the DSP I'm getting but I just know it won't cope with 80+ on the M1 for 20 minutes.

An Elcon might be the answer for you. Just make sure you can get access to two power sockets at work. It will give you a 3.7kW charge rate for less than a grand. You could leave it at work and it will enable you to do day trips if you sling it in a backpack.

Also, are you counting on the subsidy? If not, then the subsidy might pay for an Elcon or even a power tank.

Its can probably hold 75 with no isses for 20 min


I was riding mine pretty hard didnt see the temp light but did see 170F on motor temp it would cool aoon as i dropped down to 75 ish from 80+

[stevewp]

Tonight's ride left me with 42%. It was quite spirited with little traffic. Custom mode with max regen. I'm pretty happy with that tbh.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks for that info Cortez.

Sounds like a fun commute Steve.

Here's a bit of info on the Elcon:

Justin's Elcon
http://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5224

I was thinking Streetbike are likely to get another SR in as a demo soon. Not yet then.

I'd be tempted to just do your commute for a few months and see how you get on. If you're still feeling a bit anxious about needing a couple of hours charge before riding home, then an Elcon would help. It will also give some time for the Diginow to come to market. That's a development well worth following. It'll be more expensive than an Elcon, but will be more versatile. You'll also be able to use it at fast charging stations and get up to 10kW. It's a game changer.

[Kocho]

It is important to know the internal battery temperature (or what the bike thinks it is). If the bike is garaged and leaves the house at a 15C battery temperature, even in near freezing outside temps, I doubt the inside of the battery will cool off to anywhere near that cold temperature. I'd take stock in reports from folks who keep their bikes outside and assume the battery temp is known, not just the ambient temp. I'm willing to bet something inexpensive that those who do not see a range decrease have their batteries at near normal operating temperature despite the cold outside weather (or it isn't that cold outside for it to matter).

Two people on the other thread said that they didn't see any difference in range with the cold weather. Which, again, is great as an owner, but dashed my hopes a little when I was excusing the poor range this weekend. What sort of losses have you seen at what temperatures?