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[ticopowell]

Hey all,
Searched around the forum a bit and I couldn't find an answer to my specific questions.  I am considering getting an eBike, I am thinking of the Zero S or SR.

First question: Are there any other ebikes that are competitive with the Zeros? meaning range, charge time, price, and performance. It seems like the S has the longest range, best price, and highest performace (SR) so there isn't really any other good options.

Second question: I currently have a HD Sportster with the 3ish gallon tank. I get about 40-45mpg so I can go about 85-90 miles before the light comes on and then I gas up. This works great and I can get to work (10 miles round trip) all week without filling up, plus I can drive it to my girlfriends house (110ish miles away, almost all freeway climbs from 1500 feet at my place to 4000+ feet at her place).  So my question is what will a Zero give me that my HD can't do? Am I missing something money wise or would the ebike save on gas and nothing else?

Third question: Money wise it makes sense to keep the HD. It is paid off and I am only paying $100ish a year on insurance and then gas and maintenance costs. I figure I spend $120 a year on oil changes and gas is not much more than that with my current driving habits. If I get the bike I expect to drive it more often than I do my HD, so hopefully ride it to work 200+ days a year. Does a zero save me money that I am not accounting for?

Fourth question: Would I be better off looking at a different bike? I like the S or the SR for the range and speed but the FX and FXS are a lot cheaper... after trading in my HD I might not need a loan (using savings of course) so that could be an option but I don't really like the range or power of those.

Fifth question: How much range penalty does the windshield and luggage boxes have? They make a lot of sense to me so I would want at least the windshield and probably a box or 3, but if that's the difference between making it up the canyon and not then I would go without.

I obviously am interested in getting one, but I don't know how much sense it makes when I have a bike. The 10% tax incentive is helpful but it doesn't make any of these bikes cheap.

Thanks for all the help!

[MostlyBonkers]

Hi Tico and welcome. Here are my responses:

1. Only Zero at the moment in this price bracket really.

2. I think you'd probably struggle to make it to your girlfriend's place on a single charge. Maybe with a  powertank and keeping at our below 55mph.

3. The biggest cost of running any vehicle is it's depreciation. Your Harley is costing you very little to run so there aren't many savings to be made in the first place.

4. It depends on the style of bike you want really.

5. A windshield should add range as it will improve the airflow around at least some of your body and should reduce drag. I doubt luggage will make much difference.

Do you like riding your Harley? If so, just keep it as riding a Zero is very different and it will cost you a lot of money to change. You'll also lose a lot in depreciation unless you buy a second hand Zero. I doubt you're doing enough miles to save much on fuel and servicing.

It sounds to me like there are other factors that have brought you here though. Have you had a test ride yet? If not, get at least an hour in on a Zero before you spend any more time thinking about it. You have to make sure you like the experience first and foremost.

I hope that helps. [emoji4]

[benswing]

Hey Tico, welcome! 

1)  Zeros are pretty much the whole market right now.  You can get a Victory Empulse, but it costs more for less performance.

2)  You could squeeze out a trip to your girlfriend's house using a 2016 Zero S/SR with a power tank.  But you may need to hit some side roads to conserve range.  Also there are fast charging options available aftermarket (from Hollywood Electrics) but they cost more money.

3)  A Zero requires no gas, oil or maintenance so it has a lower running cost.  The more you ride, the better the finances work in your favor! 

4)  A Zero SR or S with a power tank would be the best thing for your wants and needs.

5)  Windscreen increases your range, luggage box doesn't do much.  Wind resistance plays a bigger factor than a little extra weight, especially at highway speeds.  I use both and love it!

If you are interested, check out my facebook page: Ben Rich - Electric Biker.  There are some videos about charging and range on there.  Cheers!

[ticopowell]

Thanks guys, that's very helpful! Ill try and get a test drive and possibly see if I can find a used 2015-16 SR to trade the Harley for.
Have a great week!

[protomech]

Hey all,
Searched around the forum a bit and I couldn't find an answer to my specific questions.  I am considering getting an eBike, I am thinking of the Zero S or SR.

First question: Are there any other ebikes that are competitive with the Zeros? meaning range, charge time, price, and performance. It seems like the S has the longest range, best price, and highest performace (SR) so there isn't really any other good options.

Victory Empulse TT, maybe BMW C Evolution if open to scooters and outside the US.

ZEV has an electric motorcycle that may be interesting, though they are a much smaller operation than Zero. There's some heated discussion here.

Second question: I currently have a HD Sportster with the 3ish gallon tank. I get about 40-45mpg so I can go about 85-90 miles before the light comes on and then I gas up. This works great and I can get to work (10 miles round trip) all week without filling up, plus I can drive it to my girlfriends house (110ish miles away, almost all freeway climbs from 1500 feet at my place to 4000+ feet at her place).  So my question is what will a Zero give me that my HD can't do? Am I missing something money wise or would the ebike save on gas and nothing else?

1. Significant reduction in maintenance. Saves on either taking the bike someplace or spending time wrenching on it. May be a negative if wrenching on a bike is your favorite part!
2. More fun as a commuter. I have a VFR for long trips, the Zero is way better for city riding.
3. Saves time, skip the gas station. I used to ride 25-50 miles/day, and my GS500 would need to be gassed up every 3-5 days. Come home, plug in, wake up, unplug. Done.
4. Perceptual "freedom" - after sticker shock of purchase, costs you almost nothing to ride out to the limits of the bike each day if you want.

Third question: Money wise it makes sense to keep the HD. It is paid off and I am only paying $100ish a year on insurance and then gas and maintenance costs. I figure I spend $120 a year on oil changes and gas is not much more than that with my current driving habits. If I get the bike I expect to drive it more often than I do my HD, so hopefully ride it to work 200+ days a year. Does a zero save me money that I am not accounting for?

If the Zero becomes your first choice commuter, it may completely displace other commuter vehicle options. I commuted frequently on my first gas bike, but almost every day on the Zero. If it's your first choice vehicle for commuting, then it'll avoid putting miles on a car.

The power tank on the Zero does boost range somewhat, but depending on speed it may be a stretch to make it to your girlfriend's house. I would keep the gas bike for now, if you start eyeballing the trip to the girlfriend's house on state highways and the Harley is gathering dust, maybe sell it then and look at a power tank or fast charger to offer up some longer rides on the Zero?

Fourth question: Would I be better off looking at a different bike? I like the S or the SR for the range and speed but the FX and FXS are a lot cheaper... after trading in my HD I might not need a loan (using savings of course) so that could be an option but I don't really like the range or power of those.

FX / FXS will be accelerate harder than all Zero bikes save the SR/DSR. The seating position is very tall, and the FX bikes are lighter than the S. The base 2016 S now is the same price as the two-brick FX / FXS, but offers more range.

Ride both if you can. IMO Decide on ergonomics and riding style first, range second.

Fifth question: How much range penalty does the windshield and luggage boxes have? They make a lot of sense to me so I would want at least the windshield and probably a box or 3, but if that's the difference between making it up the canyon and not then I would go without.

An aerodynamic windshield can improve range by 5-10% on the highway. So can a tuck. Tailbag shouldn't hurt much, side bags may have a larger impact.

I obviously am interested in getting one, but I don't know how much sense it makes when I have a bike. The 10% tax incentive is helpful but it doesn't make any of these bikes cheap.

The correct number of bikes to own is always one more than you have!

Go find a dealer and take one for a test drive. Bikes don't have to make sense; if they did, we'd all be riding 125-250cc scooters or sell our bikes and buy a Prius. Ride one, see if it clicks with you, run the numbers and see if it's something you can justify (or not).

[Killroy]

ebikes are bicycles
emotos are motorcycles

[MrDude_1]

ebikes are bicycles
emotos are motorcycles

as much as you might want that to stick.... it wont.
Just as I say bike for my motorcycles.... people will say ebike for their electric motorcycles....and none of us will say emoto.

This is more of a regional thing. I dont get upset when someone says petrol instead of gas, or boot instead of trunk.
On the bright side, Motor vs Engine has an actual definition about it.. so if someone talks about an electric engine, you can correct them.

[ticopowell]

ebikes are bicycles
emotos are motorcycles

I'm new to both, so it's kind of a moot point.

There is a dealer fairly close so Ill go check them out.

[ticopowell]

I drove an SR and a DSR. I think both are a lot of fun, but I am wondering how much of a difference I will see with the S and the DS. In other words is the extra $2000 worth the extra acceleration?

Along the same lines I know the motor is different, doesn't get as hot and has more power, but is it more reliable too?

Thanks guys!

[mrwilsn]

I drove an SR and a DSR. I think both are a lot of fun, but I am wondering how much of a difference I will see with the S and the DS. In other words is the extra $2000 worth the extra acceleration?

Along the same lines I know the motor is different, doesn't get as hot and has more power, but is it more reliable too?

Thanks guys!

The S ZF13, DS ZF13, DSR and SR all use the IPM (Interior Permanent Magnet) motor which doesn't get as hot as the older SPM (Surface Permanent Magnet) motors.

The DSR/SR IPM motors also use high temp magnets which can sustain more heat allowing more power and torque than the IPM motor used in the ZF13 S/DS (the bigger size 6 controller used in the DSR/SR is also required to get the extra power and torque).

The only real difference between S/DS and DSR/SR is going to be the torque and power so you are correct to ask yourself if the better acceleration and higher sustained and top speeds is worth the $2K premium.  That's a personal preference so ride them all in order to make a fully informed decision. 

[Richard230]

I suspect that the SR models will have a proportionally higher resale value than the Gen 4 models and will recoup much of that $2K premium - especially if you are selling to an IC motorcycle owner looking to experience electric thrills.   

[NEW2elec]

Richard I agree 100%.  I'm wondering how much longer they will offer the base S and DS  as you can always just go a bit slower on the R's but nice to know you can do more if you' like.  I test rode the 2016 SR the other day and found it to be a great improvement over my 2013 DS in every way except one and that would be price but I'm pretty sure I'll pick one up in the next year or so maybe used.

[ticopowell]

Resale price makes sense to be higher with the sr. Is there a way to simulate the power of the s in the custom mode of the sr? The local dealer just had an sr, dsr, and fxs.

Also is there an acronym chart/list hanging around? I feel like I've missed a few of them (not in this thread, but after searching the forum).

Thanks again, you guys are great.

[NEW2elec]

Tico with the app you can set the custom settings to just about anything you want.  I forget what the slowest top speed was on the app but I think it was either 35 or 45mph so no matter how far you twist the throttle it would only go that top speed.  You can adjust the top speed, max torque, braking regen and throttle off regen.  This is one of the reasons I would go for the Sr and you or anyone you sell it to could dial it down while you get used to the way it feels.  But of course best of all is to test ride one.  Good luck.

[ticopowell]

Thanks,
I did test ride the SR and the DSR, but they don't have the S or the DS at that dealer so if I could get them to adjust the SR to S levels that would be a decent comparison.

My step mom says I should just get a Tesla model S instead of another motorcycle... not sure if I want that or not