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[togo]

As I was discussing with Harlan Flagg this past weekend, I think a lot of people have the idea that electricity is some kind of black magic.  What makes me say that is the initial post regarding putting a generator in the trailer that is powered by the rolling wheels to recharge the bike....

Doh, I should have re-read the original post.

[Erasmo]

Trailers behind tourers are nothing new:



Terry added extra batteries and chargers to his bike so it can be done.
But instead of using a Diginow I would use a the space and weight for an extra block and use a DC inlet for fast charging on the way.

Hey, Erasmo, what trailer is that?

The other single-track trailers I've seen are axle-mount, i.e. unsprung weight.

It's from Mono-trail.

[NEW2elec]

As I was discussing with Harlan Flagg this past weekend, I think a lot of people have the idea that electricity is some kind of black magic.  What makes me say that is the initial post regarding putting a generator in the trailer that is powered by the rolling wheels to recharge the bike.

Back to High School Physics:  Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form.  A generator takes mechanical energy and converts it into electricity.  If you drag a trailer behind your Zero, and those trailers wheels are running a generator, it is the Zero providing the mechanical energy to drive those wheels.  That means some of the electricity you have available to power your bike is being  siphoned off and converted back into electricity.

Since you are only using PART of that electricity to drive that generator, you will NOT get back enough power to keep the battery charged.  Only part of that energy is used to drive the generator, the rest is used to move the motorcycle, so right there you only have a fraction of the original energy to turn back into electricity.

You also have frictional and mechanical losses involved with dragging around a heavy generator, so that is even more wasted energy.  Resistance in the wiring will also reduce the total amount you are getting back into the motorcycle's battery.  You would get farther down the road by ditching the generator/trailer altogether and just using the available stored energy in the battery to do what it was designed to do:  Propel you and the motorcycle down the road.

Think of electricity like money.  You go around throughout the day spending paper money and pocketing coin change.  At the end of the day if you're like a lot of people, you dump that change into a jar.  It doesn't matter how much change you dump into that jar, it'll NEVER equal the amount of paper money you laid out initially... it's just "what's left over."  You may eventually convert it into paper money to make it easier to carry around, but it'll never equal what you initially paid out to acquire that much change.

Glad to see my old post stirring some interest (even if it's just for a cargo trailer)
To clear up one point though I never thought I could regen from the trailer to power the bike for a trip.
A hub motor for the trailer would help push the, much heavier, total load up hills.  The regen is just to help stop this increased load the smartest way possible.
The idea was to tour Yellowstone park or the appalachian trail or somewhere you just don't want to stop and charge.  Burn through the trailer batteries, unhook and charge it while going around town on your bike's power.
But batteries are still too heavy and expensive to do this but maybe soon.

[togo]

> Glad to see my old post stirring some interest (even if it's just for a cargo trailer)

: - )

> To clear up one point though I never thought I could regen from the trailer to power the bike for a trip.
> A hub motor for the trailer would help push the, much heavier, total load up hills.  The regen is just to
> help stop this increased load the smartest way possible.
> The idea was to tour Yellowstone park or the appalachian trail or somewhere you just don't want to
> stop and charge.  Burn through the trailer batteries, unhook and charge it while going around town
> on your bike's power.

> But batteries are still too heavy and expensive to do this but maybe soon.

I don't know.  As there are more EV cars around, there are more EV car
crashes and more high-density used lithium batteries available.  : - )
So, no, not "too heavy", and more supply should mean lower prices.

[JaimeC]

As I was discussing with Harlan Flagg this past weekend, I think a lot of people have the idea that electricity is some kind of black magic.  What makes me say that is the initial post regarding putting a generator in the trailer that is powered by the rolling wheels to recharge the bike.

Back to High School Physics:  Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form.  A generator takes mechanical energy and converts it into electricity.  If you drag a trailer behind your Zero, and those trailers wheels are running a generator, it is the Zero providing the mechanical energy to drive those wheels.  That means some of the electricity you have available to power your bike is being  siphoned off and converted back into electricity.

Since you are only using PART of that electricity to drive that generator, you will NOT get back enough power to keep the battery charged.  Only part of that energy is used to drive the generator, the rest is used to move the motorcycle, so right there you only have a fraction of the original energy to turn back into electricity.

You also have frictional and mechanical losses involved with dragging around a heavy generator, so that is even more wasted energy.  Resistance in the wiring will also reduce the total amount you are getting back into the motorcycle's battery.  You would get farther down the road by ditching the generator/trailer altogether and just using the available stored energy in the battery to do what it was designed to do:  Propel you and the motorcycle down the road.

Think of electricity like money.  You go around throughout the day spending paper money and pocketing coin change.  At the end of the day if you're like a lot of people, you dump that change into a jar.  It doesn't matter how much change you dump into that jar, it'll NEVER equal the amount of paper money you laid out initially... it's just "what's left over."  You may eventually convert it into paper money to make it easier to carry around, but it'll never equal what you initially paid out to acquire that much change.

Glad to see my old post stirring some interest (even if it's just for a cargo trailer)
To clear up one point though I never thought I could regen from the trailer to power the bike for a trip.
A hub motor for the trailer would help push the, much heavier, total load up hills.  The regen is just to help stop this increased load the smartest way possible.
The idea was to tour Yellowstone park or the appalachian trail or somewhere you just don't want to stop and charge.  Burn through the trailer batteries, unhook and charge it while going around town on your bike's power.
But batteries are still too heavy and expensive to do this but maybe soon.

Okay, I misunderstood.  That makes more sense but you're still hauling around a lot of extra weight.

[togo]

Range loss due to weight be made up for by the aero gain of continuing the ideal teardrop shape.

Would have to do the test to know.

[NEW2elec]

Glad to see someone made something like I wanted for the bike even if it's car sized.

[togo]

Cool link.  Half or quarter pack ought to be doable for a motorcycle.  But you'd have to do more fab- this guy was able to use the whole pack.

I love the idea of solar storage trailer providing capacity for the house but also being able to go on the road.

[heroto]

I interpreted the "generator" flight of fancy differently, as a fossil fuel powered generator.
The 46 lb honda inverter might be just right:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honda-2-200-Watt-Super-Quiet-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Inverter-Generator-with-Eco-Throttle-and-Oil-Alert-EU2200i/304205470?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-206192156-_-304205470-_-N
Light, relatively quiet, clean power output, could recharge the Zero stack overnight. 46 lb compact generator plus a few lbs of gasoline - just a few lbs more than a power tank, and you can go a few days without seeing an electrical outlet. Maybe get up in the middle of the night to refuel the generator. It could work.

If you have the charge tank, diginow, etc, Honda makes more powerful -  and heavier - quiet inverter generators that could recharge faster, but the weight penalty is at least an additional 45 lbs.

I have zero experience towing a trailer with a motorcycle. But I do know towing a trailer, even a light trailer with a car just kills gas mileage.

Yes this is all fanciful. The OP proposed a thought experiment. Go with it!

Hopefully nextgen batteries will be a leap forward, and viola we get our cake and can eat it too. Just hoping.

[NEW2elec]

Oh man getting closer still!  Although he did this in 2017 and a little too lite for motorcycle use it's on the right track.

[togo]

>Oh man getting closer still!  Although he did this in 2017 and a little too lite for motorcycle use it's on the right track.

Well, the thin flexible solar panels are getting better.  Maybe it'll be practical to have a good area of solar fold out from a trailer soon.

[NEW2elec]

Yes it's still car sized but they are putting it into a business use so i think it was a good idea just ahead of it's time. 

https://europe.autonews.com/blogs/french-startup-uses-battery-trailers-cure-ev-range-angst

[Crissa]

Cute idea!

-Crissa