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[wavelet]

Fair enough corrections made. 

The SRF is wider, heavier, and has bigger tires and a higher likelihood of the throttle being used to enjoy that bigger motor so the SRF owners have reported about 10ish % less range than a SR.

The SR/F (and maybe soon SR/S?) isn't really comparable to the S/SR/DS/DSR's platform, like you wouldn't usually compare one of the 600cc-class twins (Suzuki SV, V-Strom etc.) to a literbike.

It has more power, a larger frame and larger GVWR most likely intended for sport / sport-touring / touring models. Eventually I'd expect an option for a larger battery to get better range, and likely an adventure-touring model.

[NEW2elec]

Well that's true, but you have to read the whole thread to see why we're talking about it.   


There was a spreadsheet showing how speed effects the range all the different electric motorcycles.  Then it showed the different recharge times for the different bikes.  The chart showed the SRF having the same range as the SR and we were pointing out that that was not the case.

[wavelet]

Well, at least the 2018 link was put in a thread talking about it

Tho I'm interested... Do you guys think they're on track to make 5000 bikes by 2021?

-Crissa

Interesting question... If they sold ~150 bikes last year, like guesstimated here,  I the combo of large battery, DC charging and good value per money getting them to high three digits this year, maybe even 1000 bikes, this year. If they manage that, several thousand bikes in 2021 is possible, although I think 5K would be difficult, due to the value proposition vs. ICE bikes .
(If the quote meant cumulative 5K by end 2021, I don't think they've sold enough bikes to date for that).

The first extensive road tests will be key. They also have a good rep on production quality, from everything I see so far.
Of course, that depends on them having the production capacity (the investor presentation linked above says they can build 5K/year), sufficient investment (apparently €20M as of mid last year) and enough dealerships to sell through.

Going by their websites, they currently have ~60 dealerships worldwide: ~40 in Europe, 11 in the US & 6 elsewhere. That's probably enough to sell and support sales of several 1000s of bikes/year. The investor presentation does say they intend to have 25 dealerships in the US & Canada by end 2020.

They look to be pretty well positioned for expanding sales; non of the large bike makers except H-D seem to have EV bikes in mind on the near term (next 1-2 years).
I do expect a sales explosion in cheaper EV commuter bikes & scooters, but that's a different market (well below $10K/bike) .

[JaimeC]

Publicizing the CRAP out of the MotoE series wouldn't hurt either.  The races are short enough to not become "processional parades" and are pretty exciting to watch.  Certainly more interesting for me than watching cars or bikes just running around an oval.  Because the races are relatively short, the competitors are CONSTANTLY attacking each other in every corner.  It makes for a very exciting series.

[wavelet]

Publicizing the CRAP out of the MotoE series wouldn't hurt either.

A company the size of Energica might not have the budget for that kind of PR; they do emphasize their role in MotoE in all their materials.

[shayan]

On the topic of the spreadsheet, does any of the Zero S/SR/DS/DSRs' max range per day numbers consider the presence of a ChargeTank?

[togo]

> Thread necro from 2015. TOGO I LOVE YOU MY MAN BUT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS HABIT OF YOURS

Hate to leave obsolete info where the goog can find it, worth following up sometimes.  Sorry I bumped the dealer loc question tho.

[MVetter]

On the topic of the spreadsheet, does any of the Zero S/SR/DS/DSRs' max range per day numbers consider the presence of a ChargeTank?

Yes, the first entry. Also known as Column B.

[Crissa]

(If the quote meant cumulative 5K by end 2021, I don't think they've sold enough bikes to date for that).

Yes, that's what that wording generally means.  It's easier to get to cumulative 5K than to 5K/year.

Anyhow, I think it's interesting to look back at these targets and hopes.  This year is looking to be good for Energica, even as we look back and see why they weren't able to get where they wanted to, they did get somewhere good!

-Crissa

[shayan]

On the topic of the spreadsheet, does any of the Zero S/SR/DS/DSRs' max range per day numbers consider the presence of a ChargeTank?

Yes, the first entry. Also known as Column B.

Aah looks like the doc has been updated now! (or could be just my browser cache).

[wavelet]

(If the quote meant cumulative 5K by end 2021, I don't think they've sold enough bikes to date for that).

Yes, that's what that wording generally means.  It's easier to get to cumulative 5K than to 5K/year.

Well, since the original was an article in Italian (that's no longer on the Web), I wasn't sure whether the translation was correct. Very recently, a very similar VW statement in German about their EV production plans got mistranslated by an English-language EV website, and caused a lot of confusion.
Also, "by 2021" is somewhat ambiguous, but IME would more commonly mean "before the beginning of 2021", which is the less likely case.

Anyway,

Anyhow, I think it's interesting to look back at these targets and hopes.  This year is looking to be good for Energica, even as we look back and see why they weren't able to get where they wanted to, they did get somewhere good!

Completely agreed, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they progress.
-Crissa
[/quote]

[dryhte]

I think with the most recent offering these bikes offer the biggest bang for the buck. And no this isn't just me. There's an ongoing spreadsheet with breakdowns of value for range, charging, price, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yWRS4EHtyGPexF4lcX4nlG5bTlSQ7Oh7tBTWL5zlbPo/edit?fbclid=IwAR2XhJ48lUsN0LJ6gtQxmAXScwvMO-A0VWtUQrbJFRQNbU8LPJEc9VSb6wY#gid=0

It's rather eye-opening.

Hi MVetter,

I thought I saw a set of 'miles per 8h day' lines in there before. I found that very interesting and now it's gone (or I'm blind). Care to elaborate why you took it out? Too confronting for the Zero owner? or not fitting with your own experiences?

In any case, good job on maintaining this file, it's educational. (nevermind, I see it's not yours but Tony's)

[Crissa]

Also, "by 2021" is somewhat ambiguous, but IME would more commonly mean "before the beginning of 2021", which is the less likely case.

In the business world it usually means inclusive dates, not before.  Any time someone in business says something, always use the more conservative interpretation.  Language is always ambiguous.

[togo]

I think with the most recent offering these bikes offer the biggest bang for the buck. And no this isn't just me. There's an ongoing spreadsheet with breakdowns of value for range, charging, price, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yWRS4EHtyGPexF4lcX4nlG5bTlSQ7Oh7tBTWL5zlbPo/edit?fbclid=IwAR2XhJ48lUsN0LJ6gtQxmAXScwvMO-A0VWtUQrbJFRQNbU8LPJEc9VSb6wY#gid=0

It's rather eye-opening.

Hi MVetter,

I thought I saw a set of 'miles per 8h day' lines in there before. I found that very interesting and now it's gone (or I'm blind). Care to elaborate why you took it out? Too confronting for the Zero owner? or not fitting with your own experiences?

In any case, good job on maintaining this file, it's educational. (nevermind, I see it's not yours but Tony's)

Miles per 8h and 24hr are back, and I hope more clearly calculated. Check my math, do not take it as gospel.

MVetter and BNM contributed to it as well.

[togo]

I question the accuracy of that spreadsheet.  For example, with both bikes having the 14.4 kWh battery, the SR will have more range than the SR/F.  Even Zero acknowledges this.  It's because of the bigger, heavier tires on the SR/F. The advantage to the SR/F is that (with the premium version) you CAN have 6kW charging AND a power tank.  The SR is an either/or proposition.

I'm all for better numbers on that spreadsheet. It was sent out with the disclaimer that the wh/mile are just copied from my Zero SR experience. I'll correct for Energica one I can do some calibration runs, but I don't have SR/f or LiveWire or the others to test.  If you have wh/mi at various speeds, please share.