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[NEW2elec]

You can watch the whole video or skip ahead to the 4:00 mark.  Oil sump motor casing.



 To hear about their IPM motor.

He was doing all this in like 2012 so not new.  Biggest thing I see is he runs 380 volts. 
Safety?  We don't need no stinken Safety.

[MostlyBonkers]

I think everyone keeps mentioning ATF because it's cheap and one or two people have tried it. There are certainly more suitable fluids out there. Good point about leakage.

I like a couple of other ideas that cropped up. After all this discussion, keeping the system dry and venting the casing has to be a top runner.  A hair dryer with an air filter on one end and tubing to the motor on the other? That's off the top of my head... No intention of taking the Mickey.  That in addition to cooling the casing of course.

[Burton]

Exposing the motor while using filters will not block moisture and in some cases chemical mixed rain/snow/salts from getting into your motor.

After riding for one season with an exposed motor in a location which salts its roads I can tell you the motor will start to rust on the inside. I cannot tell you what effect, if any, it will have on the life or performance of the motor.

I still think fully ventilated motors are only suitable in race conditions where the exposure to the elements isn't an issue because you are not putting on 13-15k miles a year in those conditions.

Now if you were to take the inlet / outlet for the air cooled motor and move them well above the ground you still run the risk of rust due to humidity ...

Having taken apart my motor I can tell you ATF will leak from the motor if you do not reseal it properly and it will enter into the encoder area for sure.

[Lipo423]

I would definitely be great to get someone who has actually perform the oil-cooling option...

[MostlyBonkers]

This is cracking me up! I thought drilling holes in the case was daft, apart from for racing. Then with filters I thought it may be worth consideration. Now that's blown out of the water thanks to Burton pointing out humidity.

Whilst searching YouTube for details on IPM motors I found a video on a Toyota Prius motor from 2001. Not new technology then. Why did Zero go down the SPM route when IPM is so obviously a better technology? Is it unkind to think that any engineer worth their salt would have gone down the IPM route from the outset? We wouldn't be wasting our combined intellect picking the bones out of workarounds that shouldn't be needed. I don't even own one and it's making me grumpy!  I'm probably being unfair and overly critical here. Zero isn't Toyota.  There is a lot to be said for getting it right in the first place, rather than littering the ecosystem with the casualties of poor design though. You're right to be upset Lipo and I doubt it's worth trying any of the fixes mentioned here. I would definitely write to Zero and find out what they are willing to do about it. If they don't offer you a worthwhile solution, based on your use case, then I don't know. Unless you're willing to risk serious modifications that have the likelihood of making matters worse, that is.

Forgive me, but as we reach the conclusion of two topics that have run to dozens of posts each, I see two fundamental truths here:

1. Lots of people have experienced overheating.

2. There isn't really a practical solution other than slowing down.

A third option exists but it means coughing up for the latest model and taking a massive hit on the depreciation of your existing bike. I don't see how to put a positive spin on this one.

[NEW2elec]

Yes Bonkers you stirred up a lot of posts from one little squirt bottle.  It showed some interesting things and ideas and that is great good job mate.  I will say this for my part I have never went into overheat mode on my 2013 DS.  I don't go on the interstate as my part of Atlanta traffic is going 90mph when I'm going to work and I don't want to die.  I think the FX and for sure the earlier SRs overheated if they were pushed hard for a longer time.  I'm waiting on some real world reviews on the new motors to see how much better they really are.  From what I see with the new bikes, now they are preforming the way they were advertised for the 2013's.  Not dishonest but bugs show up in the real world and changes needed to be made and they have been.  Better brakes and springs and motors and batteries and the price has stayed around what they were or better.  Not too bad for a small company in a niche, but growing, market.  Cheers.  Oh, wait while I have a Brit here lets talk about my Jaguars' issues some time 

[Lipo423]

This is cracking me up! I thought drilling holes in the case was daft, apart from for racing. Then with filters I thought it may be worth consideration. Now that's blown out of the water thanks to Burton pointing out humidity.

Whilst searching YouTube for details on IPM motors I found a video on a Toyota Prius motor from 2001. Not new technology then. Why did Zero go down the SPM route when IPM is so obviously a better technology? Is it unkind to think that any engineer worth their salt would have gone down the IPM route from the outset? We wouldn't be wasting our combined intellect picking the bones out of workarounds that shouldn't be needed. I don't even own one and it's making me grumpy!  I'm probably being unfair and overly critical here. Zero isn't Toyota.  There is a lot to be said for getting it right in the first place, rather than littering the ecosystem with the casualties of poor design though. You're right to be upset Lipo and I doubt it's worth trying any of the fixes mentioned here. I would definitely write to Zero and find out what they are willing to do about it. If they don't offer you a worthwhile solution, based on your use case, then I don't know. Unless you're willing to risk serious modifications that have the likelihood of making matters worse, that is.

Forgive me, but as we reach the conclusion of two topics that have run to dozens of posts each, I see two fundamental truths here:

1. Lots of people have experienced overheating.

2. There isn't really a practical solution other than slowing down.

A third option exists but it means coughing up for the latest model and taking a massive hit on the depreciation of your existing bike. I don't see how to put a positive spin on this one.

I agree with 100% of your comments mate (specially with the fact that I'm piss-off)…the options are not 100% clear (maybe the oil could work/improve slightly the situation, but we would need to get a report from a non-racing user)
I'm not racing, and my times of crazy riding are over, just trying to not having to get "temp anxiety" and enjoy the bike alone or with my son…and believe me when I said that you do not need to ride very aggressively to get the temp bloody light off

It is very luckily that I will make an official complain to Zero next spring/summer as I suspect it will get much worse

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks New2 & Lipo. I think I may be a bit of a perfectionist and that often leads to doing nothing. At least Zero have had a go.

You'll be pleased to hear I have another topic up my sleeve... [emoji6]

[Lipo423]

One of the reasons why our life becomes better everyday is because of perfectionism, not because of "it works, leave it like that Joe" people…
Do not be concerned for being perfectionist...there are a few like you in this forum

[MostlyBonkers]

Haha, too true Lipo! That explains why we end up discussing topics until all avenues are explored and we've got to the bottom of things. We're just not happy until we've beaten the living daylight out of a topic and there's nothing left to discuss. This collective consciousness that we create is actually rather good I feel. Thank you. [emoji4]

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

One of the reasons why our life becomes better everyday is because of perfectionism, not because of "it works, leave it like that Joe" people…
Do not be concerned for being perfectionist...there are a few like you in this forum

That is nonsense, and you're just letting frustration take over. Perfectionism is the enemy of improvement. The alternative to perfectionism is not acceptance and complacency, but making reasonable compromises.

In short, perfectionists don't ship real products. Be glad you have a good product that is improving instead of nothing at all.

Offer something constructive rather than threaten an "official complaint", whatever that means. What are you going to do, report Zero to the Better Business Bureau or the Department of Transportation? Your complaints are petty, not perfectionist.

[MostlyBonkers]

I haven't got time to post a proper reply to your post right now Brian. I'd also like to ask Lipo to hold off replying for the time being. Please allow me some time to respond later today all being well. Thanks. [emoji4]

[Lipo423]

One of the reasons why our life becomes better everyday is because of perfectionism, not because of "it works, leave it like that Joe" people…
Do not be concerned for being perfectionist...there are a few like you in this forum

That is nonsense, and you're just letting frustration take over. Perfectionism is the enemy of improvement. The alternative to perfectionism is not acceptance and complacency, but making reasonable compromises.

In short, perfectionists don't ship real products. Be glad you have a good product that is improving instead of nothing at all.

Offer something constructive rather than threaten an "official complaint", whatever that means. What are you going to do, report Zero to the Better Business Bureau or the Department of Transportation? Your complaints are petty, not perfectionist.

Obviously we have a different concept of perfectionism (and I respect that). I do not know your experience in product & business development, I know mine…and I would agree with you, -if this is what you meant-. Anything taken to an "extreme" is not good, but thoughtful, and facts & data perfectionism will take you to the right place (in my experience). Perfectionism, as an isolated concept, is nonsense, no question.

If you pretend to justify a wrong product/marketing approach, with the "continuos improvement" words to back you up, good for you, I do not agree on that one at all.

We may also have a language issue with the meaning of "official complains" and for your information I already offered a constructive approach, I'm not that dumb, something that you are not aware of, and I do not blame you for that either.

...And, I'm not frustrated, I'm not happy or piss off whatever suits you better in English 


I apologize MostlyBonkers, I just realized your post, sorry about that 

[MostlyBonkers]

No worries Lipo, I was worried it would flare up a bit and I've been busy. Nicely put.

[Lipo423]

Thanks MostlyBonkers, no problem
Opinions are like bottoms…everyone has one