Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Xenoilphobe]

I have a 2013 FX with 650 miles on it.  Tonight took it on the highway and got it up to 90 ish MPH, after about ten minutes at that sustained speed the temp sensor went light came on.   I slowed down to 75 MPH and it turned off.  Ambient temperatures tonight were around 59 degrees F - can't imagine what it's going to be like in summer at 110 degrees F and same situation?  Is this normal?

[MostlyBonkers]

I think that is normal Xeno. If anything, you were lucky to get ten minutes out of it at what is very close to the bike's top speed. The light came on much quicker when I test rode a 2013 S but it was a much hotter day.

I think you'll find that the bike will sustain 70-80mph (in all but the hottest weather), quite comfortably. You're more likely to find battery capacity the limiting factor and a good reason to keep your speed lower.

The good news is that it doesn't sound like you have the same problem ctrlburn had with his thermistor.

I'm sure you'll love your bike just like so many other lucky owners do on this forum. Apart from testing it out like you've just done, I doubt it will be an issue for you day-to-day, even during the summer.

I hope this helps and enjoy your new bike! [emoji4]

[Killroy]

Since I am not a owner, I have not experienced this, but how do you know that the motor is overheating specifically?  What about the battery or the controller?

[MostlyBonkers]

There's a light on the dash. The batteries don't produce much heat under discharge. Or under charge for that matter. The controller? I don't think that is an issue. I don't know much about how they work. I believe they are very efficient, so at least there's much less potential for heat generation.

I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the process of converting the chemical energy in the battery to mechanical energy at the motor's rotor is approximately 90% efficient. The vast majority of the 10% loss is due to heat in the motor.

[Killroy]

Could you upgrade a 2015 to a 2016 motor and reprogram the controller to a higher temperature limit?

[Burton]

Could you upgrade a 2015 to a 2016 motor and reprogram the controller to a higher temperature limit?

I believe this is possible given zero is still using the same controller.

If you upgraded not only would have you have change the controller temp cutoff settings, but you would have to calibrate the encoder to the controller and you might need to adjust some settings in the MBB ... I haven't done this process yet but I might get a chance to in the future depending what happens with my motor :/

You might need to modify the DVT profile for the motor as well but IDK since it is kind of the same type ...

[Burton]

Well ... it seems there is a firmware update required at the controller level in order to use the new IPM ... while I am sure I could install it the likelihood of being actually able to do something like that without a dealer involved isn't likely :/

And who knows what it will do to older bikes. I am sure we will get more details in the future. Guess we will see when the first "upgrade" is made as a DIY solution

[Lipo423]

+1 in upgrading the motor to 2016 one...
This is something it should be offered to everyone -specially the ones with SR models- which as pointed out already got the "R" for a reason...

[gborgan]

I find the overheating issue ironic since it shows that "electric" gives an opposite result of ICE.  At least around San Diego, I will never have to worry because when commuting we spend most of our time between 0 mph and 40 mph in heavy traffic.  I have had my '15 SR for a month and in 1200 miles of riding have never seen the motor temp indicate over 180 and that's probably 20 degrees off since it's always 20 degrees above ambient when "cold."  I have ridden around 70 for longer periods without overheating on warm days.  As a commuter, these things are great because they cool off when standing still while the air cooled ICE bikes must keep moving to avoid heating up. 

[MostlyBonkers]

Justin and I went to Streetbike on Sunday to ride their 2015 SR demo bike. Justin left me with a lot more charge than I anticipated (thank you sir), due to his wish to try city riding. It gave me a good opportunity to test motorway riding.

The conditions were a little challenging as there was a lot of wind which tends to affect the Zero more than my VFR.

So the test was to ride with the traffic as I do on my commute. Some of the traffic on my commute is rather fast, so I'm often cruising at 90mph, sometimes more. I know that might sound ridiculous to some of you, but I'm just telling you as it is. On my way up to meet Jason I followed a BMW who seemed quite happy to do the ton (100) when traffic didn't slow him down. Another guy in a Mercedes just had to be the fastest guy on the road. I let him. When we got to a long stretch of roadworks I caught up. He then decided he'd do 70 in a 50 despite there being average speed cameras. Cop, criminal or nutter? I didn't want to find out...

Anyhow, the SR coped well on the first run. The orange temperature warning light did start blinking after a few miles as the motor temperature went up to around 220F. It didn't seem to want to go solid except for a couple of brief moments before I pulled off the motorway. The motor was up to around 226-240F at that point but I hadn't noticed any drop in power.

I had gone a couple of junctions further than the exit for Streetbike so I turned round and rejoined the motorway southbound. It became immediately apparent that I had been in a tailwind on the first run. Although the motor temperature had managed to drop below 200F on the slip road and roundabout, it now very quickly maxed out at 244-246F. This is when I noticed the power reduction; at first limiting the speed to 85mph and then dropping to 75. It didn't drop any further and the motor started to cool a bit. When traffic conditions meant I had to close the throttle for a little while, the 75mph limit lifted and I'm sure the throttle felt more responsive too.

My NC750S would have sustained 90mph in that headwind without any trouble. Power isn't the issue here because the SR is more powerful than the NC. It is purely and simply heat and the inability of the cooling system to dissipate it quickly enough.  The ambient temperature was 16C. Mild for the UK at this time of year but by no means hot.

Needless to say, the battery drained very quickly during my motorway runs. In fact, so much so that I started to wonder if it would manage my commute on a single charge! I'm sure it would, providing I kept my speed down to 80 on the motorway. The extra ten mph or so on top of that figure really chews through the juice.

I wanted to see for myself how the SR would cope with sustained high speeds, especially after all the discussion this topic has raised. However, should any current or potential SR owners be worried by my findings and those of others here? I don't think so. Faulty thermistors aside of course...

Part of the reason I got rid of the NC just over a month ago is because I concluded that it just wasn't suitable for the high speed sections on my commute. This had more to do with the lack of any fairing making me very cold and wet at speed. I really didn't fancy riding into the winter with no fairing. I also missed the power of my Fazer, which was nice to have on the motorway.

This last test ride on a Zero has really brought it home to me about what these bikes are designed for. They are certainly capable of short bursts at high speed but the real limiting factor, more so than heat, is the energy consumed by air resistance. Something that Craig Vetter and Terry H are so experienced with. Without a fairing you don't want to be sustaining more than 70-80mph for any length of time. Even at those speeds your range is going to be limited to well under 100 miles with the possible exception of power tank users.

In conclusion, I think this just goes to underline the fact that Zero's bikes have been engineered around the limitations of the current battery technology.  I still think they've done a great job, even without the new IPM motor. Disappointment lies ahead only for those who try to push them into modes of use that are outside their design scope.

Will they do my commute? Yes, if I go back to using the route I've been using for the last three years: one junction on the M25, followed by a mile or two on the A1 before I hit a 50 limit.  I rode it yesterday and it really isn't a bad route overall, despite having used the M1 and A41 for the last few months.

This will I/won't I on the electric motorcycle front has been driving me nuts for nearly three years now!

[Lipo423]

First of all, thanks for sharing the testing.

I would agree with you with a lot of the statements, except one: "…what these bikes are designed for…"

Well, Zero is selling their bike worldwide, which means they should test ride/homologate them on these bases,  and having travelled intensely around the world -including the UK where you live- in my country (Spain) it becomes challenging  just keep up riding the bike within Zero 2014 claimed std. specs…or for what I was told was designed for. Obviously this is not the case in the UK, which is great news for the UK riders 

When you get a bike with the "R" and you are told it has bigger magnets to handle higher temperatures & speeds, etc..., you expect more (at least, I do). Unfortunately, it looks like the first SR 2014-15 models had what I call "a declaration of intent" with poor testing behind.

These are not race bikes, no question, but I'm not racing (the times where I was riding my R bikes at non-sense/crazy speeds are over for me)

The new 2016 SR motor 75-7R supports what I just stated…

[MostlyBonkers]

My pleasure Lipo, I'm glad you found it useful. In the back of my mind I think I remember you mentioning your experiences with overheating in Spain. It must be in another topic.

In this topic I notice you suggested that existing SR owners should be given the opportunity to be upgraded to the new IPM motor. That's an excellent idea! I remember when Justin's 2012 needed a new motor due to water ingress. I was told that the motors are really cheap, in the order of about £100. The newer motors may be a little more. It also sounds like there is some reprogramming required.

I agree with you Lipo. Zero could offer a replacement to existing owners. Many, like Benswing perhaps, may not take up the offer because they don't experience overheating. Others just won't be that bothered to go to the hassle. For a few people like yourself, it would be a great gesture of goodwill from Zero. In fact it would be a great PR move generally in my opinion. The kind of thing that might get them a good write-up in the press! [emoji4]

[Doug S]

I'd be one of those that wouldn't go through the hassle (nor the expense!). Sure, I'm envious of the new SR owners (mine's a 2014), with their improved suspension, heat-resistant motor, higher battery capacity and whatnot, but I just have to remind myself that my bike still does every single thing it did when I bought it, and I've had the pleasure of riding it for two years now. It would be quite costly to upgrade, even "just" the motor, so I'm not going to do it.

Not to mention the bike would be out of commission for at least a few days during the conversion. Instead, I'll keep my money in my pocket and just ride my fool ass off.

[Lipo423]

My pleasure Lipo, I'm glad you found it useful. In the back of my mind I think I remember you mentioning your experiences with overheating in Spain. It must be in another topic.

In this topic I notice you suggested that existing SR owners should be given the opportunity to be upgraded to the new IPM motor. That's an excellent idea! I remember when Justin's 2012 needed a new motor due to water ingress. I was told that the motors are really cheap, in the order of about £100. The newer motors may be a little more. It also sounds like there is some reprogramming required.

I agree with you Lipo. Zero could offer a replacement to existing owners. Many, like Benswing perhaps, may not take up the offer because they don't experience overheating. Others just won't be that bothered to go to the hassle. For a few people like yourself, it would be a great gesture of goodwill from Zero. In fact it would be a great PR move generally in my opinion. The kind of thing that might get them a good write-up in the press! [emoji4]

Thanks for your reply.

As you pointed out it would be great if they offer such a deal (in my opinion a lot of the intensive/hard use riders would be extremely happy, as well as the "hot" country located ones). After all, that's what we bought (or we were sold), a kind of sports bike.

Let's see what happens...

[MostlyBonkers]

I've just been reading Burton's thread about putting a 2014 SR motor in his 2013 S bike.

I've learnt that a new SR motor is $1,600, or approximately £1,050 or €1,500 at current exchange rates. Quite simply ten times more expensive than I thought! This does rather blow the idea of Zero doing a free upgrade out of the water!

The new IPM motors for 2016 are bound to be more expensive and there is the added complication of having to reprogram the controller.  I'd say this would be far too costly an exercise for Zero to consider.

I have just thought of an idea that might provide a cheap solution to this problem. I'll start a separate topic for it though. It is a little bonkers...