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Author Topic: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO  (Read 18155 times)

skadamo

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2015, 04:41:29 AM »

Yeah, that's internet, man ;)

I posted all pics already on Facebook where nobody but Facebook can remove these

Way to stick it to Domenick. *high five* 
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Chocula

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2015, 11:43:05 AM »

Zero's website now has the 2016 bikes listed.   Enjoy
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firepower

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #107 on: October 15, 2015, 12:35:06 PM »

disappointing, no surprises.
Power tank is welcome.  8.9h > 3.4h 100% charged.
DS get R version DSR
FX get street version FXS, alloy wheels. ZF2.8/5.7 > ZF3.3/6.5 (more range, now more than  original 2012 S ZF6)

SR changes are
Battery ZF12.5 > ZF13 (slightly more range)
Top speed 85 mph (137 km/h) > 95 mph (153 km/h) via pully 132T / 30T > 130T / 30T

Thats it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 12:42:24 PM by firepower »
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #108 on: October 15, 2015, 12:38:43 PM »

Where do we start? I was wrong about quick charging, but only half wrong it seems. Rather than writing 3.8 kWh off as only slightly more than you'd expect from a UK domestic socket, I think it warrants some more thought.

Note that the charge tank won't be available for six months. It looks like Electric Cowboy has a better offering. Available now(ish)?
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wavelet

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2015, 01:01:35 PM »

disappointing, no surprises.
Power tank is welcome.  8.9h > 3.4h 100% charged.
DS get R version DSR
FX get street version FXS, alloy wheels. ZF2.8/5.7 > ZF3.3/6.5 (more range, now more than  original 2012 S ZF6)

SR changes are
Battery ZF12.5 > ZF13 (slightly more range)
Top speed 85 mph (137 km/h) > 95 mph (153 km/h) via pully 132T / 30T > 130T / 30T

Thats it.
I'm very disappointed personally (at least as someone who has no interest in supermoto or dual-sport bikes -- I fully realize expanding the model range can inherently bring more customers).
Pretty much none of the things people here were talking about...
Extending the (highway) range by 4mi is so little, I wonder if it's even worth it in term of changing their production line.

Even no change in the bog-slow 1.3kW charging rate...
No reason that couldn't have been doubled, at least for Europe (where standard household sockets are usually 16A, so 3kW appliances are fine on such outlets). Halving the charging time would be very beneficial.
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firepower

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #110 on: October 15, 2015, 01:06:33 PM »

I expected some more software changes, like enabling traction control and cruise control.
Hardware and electronics is there already.
For promoting modern technology they need to be more like Tesla, push the technology.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 01:08:20 PM by firepower »
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Justin Andrews

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #111 on: October 15, 2015, 01:14:22 PM »

Quote
No reason that couldn't have been doubled, at least for Europe (where standard household sockets are usually 16A, so 3kW appliances are fine on such outlets). Halving the charging time would be very beneficial.

Hold that thought, I know that Zero Europe were testing a 3wKh charger this Summer gone. So it is a possibility.

As for disappointment with the announcement? Why?
We'd been informed that the changes for the 2016 models were slight, and we got that.
I really don't think we'll ever see the scale of the 2012>2013 changes for a long while and that's probably for the best.

I'd much rather see incremental changes to the bikes than lots of hyperbole and flashy new tech (which invariably breaks)
I'd say we are seeing Zero mature as a company, and I like it.
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PhreaK

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2015, 01:18:06 PM »

Looks like the 'official' charge tank may not play nicely with the older bikes either. The product page only references the 2016 models, and accompanying text species 2015 and later.

Pretty incremental improvements all in all. The motard would be a lot of fun. If I was just coming into the Zero world and looking for an urban commuter, it would be my pick. Those removal batteries would be perfect for apartment living (not that it's anything you haven't been able to do with an FX previously - just nice having it in 'off the shelf' form).
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Justin Andrews

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #113 on: October 15, 2015, 01:21:10 PM »

Where do we start? I was wrong about quick charging, but only half wrong it seems. Rather than writing 3.8 kWh off as only slightly more than you'd expect from a UK domestic socket, I think it warrants some more thought.

Note that the charge tank won't be available for six months. It looks like Electric Cowboy has a better offering. Available now(ish)?

I'd be more likely to go for EC's solution at the moment, first it is more powerful, and give you more bang for your buck. Secondly, it does not have to take up the module slot in the tank, which allows for a power tank to still be fitted.
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wavelet

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2015, 01:25:19 PM »

OK, I just noticed the "Charge Tank" option buried in the specs...

Is this simply DigiNow's charger installed ex-factory, or something else with the same name?
They say it triples the charging rate, which is much lower than the DigiNow (which IIUC, depending on the charge station, delivers at least 6kW, and can handle 10kW);
OTOH it's not compatible with the Power Tank so obviously lives in the same space.
it costs ~$2K as an add-on (they don't say if they delete the standard charger if you order it with a bike).
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #115 on: October 15, 2015, 01:30:14 PM »


OK, I just noticed the "Charge Tank" option buried in the specs...

Is this simply DigiNow's charger installed ex-factory, or something else with the same name?
They say it triples the charging rate, which is much lower than the DigiNow (which IIUC, depending on the charge station, delivers at least 6kW, and can handle 10kW);
OTOH it's not compatible with the Power Tank so obviously lives in the same space.
it costs ~$2K as an add-on (they don't say if they delete the standard charger if you order it with a bike).

Based on the quoted kW charge rate total on the motorcycle features pages, it's equivalent to an Elcon 2500, so 2.5kW added to the onboard 1.3kW. It would not appear to be the same as DigiNow's, and they're clear about retaining the onboard charger on the motorcycle features pages.
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Current: 2020 DSR, 2012 Suzuki V-Strom
Former: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS

wavelet

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2015, 01:53:46 PM »


OK, I just noticed the "Charge Tank" option buried in the specs...

Is this simply DigiNow's charger installed ex-factory, or something else with the same name?
They say it triples the charging rate, which is much lower than the DigiNow (which IIUC, depending on the charge station, delivers at least 6kW, and can handle 10kW);
OTOH it's not compatible with the Power Tank so obviously lives in the same space.
it costs ~$2K as an add-on (they don't say if they delete the standard charger if you order it with a bike).

Based on the quoted kW charge rate total on the motorcycle features pages, it's equivalent to an Elcon 2500, so 2.5kW added to the onboard 1.3kW. It would not appear to be the same as DigiNow's, and they're clear about retaining the onboard charger on the motorcycle features pages.
I missed the "Details" panel -- thanks!
I don't know what the DigiNow solution will cost once it's past the initial stage, but the Zero solution doesn't seem very attractive, in terms of price/performance.

Away from home, while on a riding trip, the longest typical stop I can see is 1-1.5 hours (lunch stop or off-bike sightseeing). If Level2 is available, I'd want to make use of the available 6kW+ to charge to 90%-100% SoC in that timeframe for the next segment of the trip.

If this is a longer errands/shopping run starting from home, I'm probably riding at speeds where the range is sufficient as-is, without destination charging.

It sounds like a very partial solution, and losing the Power Tank option for it isn't very attractive.
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NoiseBoy

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2015, 01:55:46 PM »

You lot are never happy! For years you have been asking for more range and faster charging but when you get it it's a disappointment. Its a shame the bigger charger option couldn't have gone in the belly pan to keep the PT option but at least Zero now match Brammo for performance in charge and discharge.

P.s. Lecram ; maybe consider putting the community before getting a few extra Facebook likes next time?
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grmarks

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2015, 02:10:00 PM »

12.5 kwh to 13 kwh may not seem much unless you are pushing the bike the last mile home!
They also claim that the motor has better thermal dissipation now, not just gearing as firepower suggested.
With the gearing higher it would normally produce more heat, so something has changed in the motor.

The FXS will give a lower seat height (1.8 inches lower) which is better for commuting/city (squeezing through tight spaces). Its like a third on road option - S, SR & FXS, thats not to bad for prospective buyers.

Off road has DS, DSR & FX.   

Had there been a 2015 DSR I might have been temped to buy it over the SR. More options again at the top of the power range.

Looking at it this way it makes a lot of sense, and could result in more sales. After all thats what companies exist for - to make money.

As to not giving ppl what they want, many wanted to be able to ride hard for longer - well you got it.
If you want to ride at 95 mph for extended time - good luck in keeping your license (at least in Australia).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 02:28:02 PM by grmarks »
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Electric Terry

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Re: 2016 Zero Lineup Announcement at AIMEXPO
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2015, 02:35:21 PM »

Right, to me the biggest news is the new Integrated Permanent Magnet motor!  This is huge!  It means less thermal cutbacks, cooler more efficient running, and more options for performance tuning as it won't necessarily have the same rpm limitations that the non IPM motors did due to glue and band strength.  The heart of the bike just got stronger!!  This is a pretty intense improvement!

How many complained about thermal cutbacks commuting?  You can't ever please everybody, but I'll bet it's mostly smiles from here on!

Plus the FXS?  much more range (from 70 miles range last year to 90 miles this year!!!) and this bike will be a beast to ride around town! 3.8 sec 0-60 and less than 300 pounds?  For people with less than a 40 mile commute to work, this might be the absolute ideal vehicle to make you as happy as you can be each morning and evening.

I like seeing another battery improvement a year after seeing a big jump.  5% per year is better than Tesla has been doing.  In 4 years they went from 85 kWh to 90.  Zero went from 4.1 kWh to 15.9.  I'd say Zero is killing it compared to everyone else out there!

My 2015 Zero does everything I could want.  The 2016 is even better!  I don't see why this wouldn't suit almost everyone's daily riding needs by a huge margin! 

Want to road trip?  Get either of the new charge tanks.  If you get the bigger DigiNow one, then the Zero can be your only vehicle as you can go anywhere with it.

I'd be surprised if I see anyone who buys a 2016 complaining about anything, just constant smiles! The bikes getting quite refined, and you can do things on Zero's you can't do on any other motorcycle.  I know I love the technology so some might think I'm biased, but if I could choose any vehicle on the planet to ride, it would be my Zero just as it is.  I love it!  Well I would want to be able to accelerate 0-100 in under 2 seconds, but then again no factory vehicle can do that, and that's probably not a normal want so I'm just a little different I guess.  Now with ABS from last year, it's pretty perfect as it is for everything I do.

Considering the Nissan LEAF didn't change almost a single thing in 6 years, I think it's quite impressive that Zero changes things each year.  Remember the Brammo Empulse we heard about in early 2010?  Polaris/Victory is now selling it and it also is almost exactly the same as we saw it 6 years ago too.  Zero Motorcycles does a pretty awesome job!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 03:19:57 PM by Electric Terry »
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