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Total Members Voted: 86

[ctrlburn]

The accessory port has a charge fuse and limits power to safely where a 30 J1772 can deliver.  A controller kit will allow charging from 70A J1772 ports, NEMA 14-50's at home or at RV parks, or to one day perhaps get the dual J1772 input - Wye adapter for 12,000 watts into the charger. 

I would have guessed "accessory port charging" will plug in above the rear wheel on the Zero even though my manual calls it "Auxiliary Power Pack Charging Connection" and I'm pretty certain my 2013S (still pre-12.5 update) has one but the chart says "N/A" so I'm stumped.

I'm going to leave un-presumed what a controller kit does as my conjecture is more unfoundable.

I'm not trying to ask questions which have yet to be answered... someone chose the language used to make those headings so they must mean something.

[Electric Cowboy]

The accessory port has a charge fuse and limits power to safely where a 30 J1772 can deliver.  A controller kit will allow charging from 70A J1772 ports, NEMA 14-50's at home or at RV parks, or to one day perhaps get the dual J1772 input - Wye adapter for 12,000 watts into the charger. 

I would have guessed "accessory port charging" will plug in above the rear wheel on the Zero even though my manual calls it "Auxiliary Power Pack Charging Connection" and I'm pretty certain my 2013S (still pre-12.5 update) has one but the chart says "N/A" so I'm stumped.

I'm going to leave un-presumed what a controller kit does as my conjecture is more unfoundable.

I'm not trying to ask questions which have yet to be answered... someone chose the language used to make those headings so they must mean something.

So the 2013 accessory port only has a 30A fuse without the free 2015 battery upgrade. So if you don't get the battery upgrade, which you should do right away, we say N/A because it doesn't make sense to use the old 2013 port, o ly the controller.

[ctrlburn]

The accessory port has a charge fuse and limits power to safely where a 30 J1772 can deliver.  A controller kit will allow charging from 70A J1772 ports, NEMA 14-50's at home or at RV parks, or to one day perhaps get the dual J1772 input - Wye adapter for 12,000 watts into the charger. 

I would have guessed "accessory port charging" will plug in above the rear wheel on the Zero even though my manual calls it "Auxiliary Power Pack Charging Connection" and I'm pretty certain my 2013S (still pre-12.5 update) has one but the chart says "N/A" so I'm stumped.

I'm going to leave un-presumed what a controller kit does as my conjecture is more unfoundable.

I'm not trying to ask questions which have yet to be answered... someone chose the language used to make those headings so they must mean something.

So the 2013 accessory port only has a 30A fuse without the free 2015 battery upgrade. So if you don't get the battery upgrade, which you should do right away, we say N/A because it doesn't make sense to use the old 2013 port, o ly the controller.

OK so we've established that "accessory port charging" is plugging into "Auxiliary Power Pack Charging Connection" once it has a 100 AMP fuse. Good - that was my guess.



Leaving just what does the other column's "controller kit"  method entail

[benswing]

Basically, everyone wants to charge at 12kW.  We all know how to connect to the aux port.  How do we connect through using the "controller kit?" 

Will it require a dealership to know how to make the connections or can anyone hook it up easily? 

For example, I'm counting on 10kW at RV parks for my summer ride this year, but the terminology "controller kit" makes me a bit nervous about installation.  If you can clear that up easily, it would help.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I think "controller kit" is just referring to lugs meant to install on B+ and B- input leads to the motor controller, designed to charge through that interface. Lugs like that would be permanent installed, with a downstream disconnect (guessing Anderson).

[Erasmo]

Hey guys, I was in a bit of a wreck yesterday and bumped my head pretty good. Lots of blood and all that fun stuff. Testing on JPlugs seems to have passed completely, however testing on the NEMA 1450 needs some more still. That will have to be delayed a few days until I get better.

Also, I will be fine soon. If you guys remember, I broke my spine in 2014 and was back on the track in a few weeks. This is nowhere near that bad.

Ai that sucks, I hope that you have a swift recovery.
^{And that the prototype is undamaged}

[Electric Terry]

Ben to use more than 8 kW continuous you will need to use the controller kit.  Although the charge fuse is 100 amps we have had it blow on 2 bikes under 9000 watts.  So in the right conditions, the charge fuse didn't like even just 90 amps.  And because of that each bike was out of commission for a week replacing the wiring harness. 

So don't charge with more than a single 30 amp J1772 using the accessory port above the motor.   We have had about 20 things happen we didn't expect that have caused big delays in releasing this and this was just one of them.  But it's good EC has been asking us to perform this testing as Ben I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy charging at 10 kW at an RV park somewhere along your trip and then blowing your charge fuse and having to have your bike towed and in the shop for a week while a new wiring harness arrives.  So please everyone remain patient as you have been.  We are trying to find everything that can go wrong, and while we hope unexpected things aren't discovered, I'm glad we find them and fix it.  It just takes time.

Since the 14-50 testing isn't finished yet, right now the first few people that wish to soon receive the chargers will only be set up for J1772 charging, until the 14-50 adapter is sent separately and more fully tested.

To have the controller kit installed, it will need to go to a dealer or have someone familiar with high voltage electronics do the install and the main high amp battery contacts on the controller will be tapped, and charging will proceed backwards through those leads.  An auxiliary 250 Amp fuse is included and will need to be installed in the tail section.

[MrDude_1]

Ben to use more than 8 kW continuous you will need to use the controller kit.  Although the charge fuse is 100 amps we have had it blow on 2 bikes under 9000 watts.  So in the right conditions, the charge fuse didn't like even just 90 amps.  And because of that each bike was out of commission for a week replacing the wiring harness. 

So don't charge with more than a single 30 amp J1772 using the accessory port above the motor.   We have had about 20 things happen we didn't expect that have caused big delays in releasing this and this was just one of them.  But it's good EC has been asking us to perform this testing as Ben I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy charging at 10 kW at an RV park somewhere along your trip and then blowing your charge fuse and having to have your bike towed and in the shop for a week while a new wiring harness arrives.  So please everyone remain patient as you have been.  We are trying to find everything that can go wrong, and while we hope unexpected things aren't discovered, I'm glad we find them and fix it.  It just takes time.

Since the 14-50 testing isn't finished yet, right now the first few people that wish to soon receive the chargers will only be set up for J1772 charging, until the 14-50 adapter is sent separately and more fully tested.

To have the controller kit installed, it will need to go to a dealer or have someone familiar with high voltage electronics do the install and the main high amp battery contacts on the controller will be tapped, and charging will proceed backwards through those leads.  An auxiliary 250 Amp fuse is included and will need to be installed in the tail section.

bit of a tangent but...  Why would you have to replace the harness if its just the charge fuse? Why can you not replace the fuse? is it a fusable link? Is the fuse undersized and you have actual wires melting?

[Electric Terry]

The fuse was never intended to blow and is built into the wiring harness in a non accessible place and sealed with a thick hardened heat shrink rubber requiring basically cutting it out of the harness.  It is easier just to replace the harness.  And that is the procedure Zero call for as well.  if you call and ask for a charge fuse, they can't sell you one.  You get a new harness.  So basically if you would like to charge over 7200 watts, don't risk the charge fuse.  Use the controller kit.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

That is really good insight into the process; now I see why the controller kit is being mentioned centrally instead of as an alternate option for older models with lower fused charging inputs, and why further testing is necessary. Good luck!

[Erasmo]

Neat to hear that it is getting closer and closer to sending the first batch out.

Ben to use more than 8 kW continuous you will need to use the controller kit.  Although the charge fuse is 100 amps we have had it blow on 2 bikes under 9000 watts.  So in the right conditions, the charge fuse didn't like even just 90 amps.  And because of that each bike was out of commission for a week replacing the wiring harness. 

So don't charge with more than a single 30 amp J1772 using the accessory port above the motor.   We have had about 20 things happen we didn't expect that have caused big delays in releasing this and this was just one of them.  But it's good EC has been asking us to perform this testing as Ben I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy charging at 10 kW at an RV park somewhere along your trip and then blowing your charge fuse and having to have your bike towed and in the shop for a week while a new wiring harness arrives.  So please everyone remain patient as you have been.  We are trying to find everything that can go wrong, and while we hope unexpected things aren't discovered, I'm glad we find them and fix it.  It just takes time.

Hmm how can they blow under a load that is way lower than they're made for? Ah anyway that's not something for you to find out.

But a fuse of 250A? What is the max power of this beast?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Neat to hear that it is getting closer and closer to sending the first batch out.
Hmm how can they blow under a load that is way lower than they're made for? Ah anyway that's not something for you to find out.

But a fuse of 250A? What is the max power of this beast?

That's probably a fast limit for the fuse, ensuring that power transients don't destroy the fuse while also supporting a working load that stays in spec. I'm going to speculate vaguely from prior engineering familiarity that there are power transients because of interactions between solid state power systems.

[MrDude_1]

Hmm how can they blow under a load that is way lower than they're made for? Ah anyway that's not something for you to find out.

But a fuse of 250A? What is the max power of this beast?

If I was to take a bet.... I bet its a 100a fast blow fuse.  so shorting about 100A across it would make it blow almost instantly.  A fuse blows because the heat is so intense it vaporizes.
This means that if you were to take NEAR 100A, say 92 or so(8% although at this powerlevel that might be higher) , and hold it... it would get warm.  if you keep holding it at that power, it gets hotter and hotter.  If its as sealed as terry just said, the heat has nowhere to go... and at some point, pop, it melts.


That said, if it was me, I would source a replacement fuse and offer a repair service. Has to be cheaper than a new harness.

[Electric Terry]

If I was to take a bet.... I bet its a 100a fast blow fuse.  so shorting about 100A across it would make it blow almost instantly.  A fuse blows because the heat is so intense it vaporizes.

That said, if it was me, I would source a replacement fuse and offer a repair service. Has to be cheaper than a new harness.

Correct, even the onboard Calex can blow the fuse if it were to be plugged in on the DC side is on.  The inrush current to the capacitors has also blown the charge fuse when hooking up an external calex to the accessory port.

The stock onboard charger on the bike charges the caps via a precharge resistor to equalize voltage on both sides before the contactor closes.  Also you can plug it in to AC power first and then plug in the DC side. 

Basically just confirming this is a fast blow fuse and you are correct as to why heat buildup was perhaps the reason it blew with less than its rated max.

And there is another way.  If you take one Anderson out of the main battery, one out of the accessory port, and one out of the onboard charger Anderson, and the positive battery lead to the controller, you can replace just this section and the charge fuse is included.  This is what I did  a couple weeks ago on my bike, but not sure if this would be considered standard procedure.

Basically we just don't want anyone to have this happen to them.  For J plug use, the accessory port is fine, for a 14-50 or anything higher, you can't charge this way without almost certainly having a failure.  So best not to try.

[benswing]

Thanks Terry.

Hope you get well soon, Brandon!