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Total Members Voted: 86

[Electric Terry]

Look Bonkers, I understand your concern, and 10 years ago I would have thought the same thing that if something made sense that it should happen no matter what and it was someone's job to do that and everything that everyone thought made sense.

But that's just not how the world works.  You mention Yamaha.  If you put an aftermarket pipe on your bike, and shortly after your exhaust valves burn out, Yamaha will show you the fine print that an aftermarket pipe voids your warranty. 

However, I'd say half of all sport bikes on the planet have an aftermarket pipe.  Why?  Because companies like Yoshimura, Two Brothers, Akrapovic, Vance & Hines, Leo Vince and many more are trusted by the public to make a good product that will not damage the bike.  It is not Yamaha's job to test each exhaust system and give it a stamp of approval.  If there is only one pipe maker on the planet, you might ask Yamaha to test it and promise you it won't void their warranty.  What when there are 2 pipe makers?  How about 100 pipe makers each year for each bike they have?  Is it still Yamaha's job to test all these now?

So what happens in 5 or 10 years when there are 100 aftermarket chargers on the market that work with Zero's?   All different power levels.  All different sizes.  All different adapters.  I can't wait for the handlebar insert and bar end charger.  I'm gonna get two of them, one for each side.  500 watts each using micro silicon carbide mosfets and super tiny.  Just kidding not a real product that is in development, but one day I'm sure it could be.  But you see the point?  Would you still feel it's Zero's job to test each and every one of these aftermarket chargers on each of their bikes in all sorts of conditions each year?  Of course not. 

And because of that I can say with a high degree of certainty Zero will never "certify" the Elcons, aftermarket meanwells, the Diginow or any other chargers that currently work with Zero's.  It's just not gonna happen. 

Does that mean you should never put an aftermarket pipe on your Yamaha or put an aftermarket charger on your Zero?  Or Jailbreak your iPhone? Or remove the tags from your under your mattress?  Or anything else that voids the warranty on hundreds of items that people use every day?

Use common sense.  If bikes were blowing up from aftermarket pipes, then people would talk about it and not do it any more.  If using aftermarket chargers for the past 4 years like the Elcons was causing some problem to the Zero, then people would talk about it and not do it any more.  If jailbreaking your iPhone was causing it to crash permanently and Apple said it's your fault, buy a new phone at full price, then people would talk about it and not do it any more.

Point is, Zero might embrace these chargers knowing that they will help more people buy their motorcycles, but I wouldn't hold my breath if you are waiting for them to ever certify it.  That's never gonna happen. 

I know you like to worry about things Bonkers, so I am recommending you buy the official Zero Charge Tank this spring!  First of all it is a great product!  And it lets you charge at 3.8 kW combined!  That's 3 times better than ever before!  And especially if you don't really want to take really long trips, it's perfect to charge at that rate.  Let the braver early adopters who want to travel farther and charge faster test the new aftermarket products for you until you think the sample size is large enough to satisfy your concerns.

[Electric Terry]

Sorry to get upset at you Bonkers, I know you are just trying to help ask questions, and you have hundreds of concerns.  I'm assuming that because all these concerns are racing around in your head, you must not have your Zero yet.  Didn't you say you were getting it at the first of the year?  I'm waiting for that time, as I look forward to us discussing real things that are happening instead of hypothetical concerns no one has ever experienced and may never.

I guess I'm a believer in the saying "If something isn't broken, don't fix it".   People have been using aftermarket chargers on Zero's for a long time.  Each one has voided their warranty.  Why are we making an issue of this now when there has never been a problem?

You mention what happens if you start using the diginow charger and the BMS fails?  Well, if there is the smallest chance that the charger caused the BMS to fail, guess what?  You need to buy another BMS! That is not Zero's fault.  However, if there was a known issue that BMS's were failing on bikes that didn't have an aftermarket charger, and you had the same symptoms they did, guess what?  I'd be willing to bet Zero would help fix your BMS, even though you were using an aftermarket charger sold through a trusted retailer like Hollywood Electrics, and these chargers had never caused any problems before.  Does that sound logical?

Get the bike! Ride it! It will fix everything!

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks for taking the time to respond so thoroughly Terry.  I was in two minds about bringing the question about warranties up if I'm honest.  We probably both wish I hadn't!  It's only because it came up when discussing a potential route home with the new bike and getting a quick charge from Justin's Elcon.

I was all set to try and pick the bike up on 2nd Jan, although I knew that was a bit ambitious with it being Christmas.  I was told that the 9th was more realistic and then that was put back to 16th due to the delays imposed by the registration paperwork.  The 20th is a more likely date though, due to my availability and who's available at Streetbike on which day.  Soon I hope!

If nothing else, I think some useful content has been added to this topic.  People can make of it what they will and hopefully the net result is that they'll feel reassured that Zero have enough safeguards in place that using a good quality 3rd party charger like the Elcon and Diginow products won't be the cause of any BMS or battery failures.  Also, that if there is an internal battery or BMS fault unrelated to charging which requires a warranty claim, that Zero will do the decent thing and honour the warranty despite this technicality that has been raised.  Fair enough, I guess!  Thanks Terry, I'm sure others will appreciate this too. 

[RedWizardChris]

Bonkers, have no regrets for asking the questions about the factory warranty interacting with aftermarket parts, I'm certain the same questions were/will be on the minds of many people seeking faster charging solutions than Zero has provided and the discussion is very relevant.  This is especially true in light of the fact that the new charge tank being only as good as a single Elcon, aftermarket solutions are still very desirable. Your concerns were definitely reasonable, these bikes and accessories are both expensive and powerful and proper care should be taken with any vehicle powertrain decisions.  I'm glad to hear about the protective features the zero comes with beyond the input fuse, and Terry was able to convey a lot of good points that I hadn't considered about the design of the BMS on the zero as it relates to fast chargers.    Thanks for the info!

-Chris

[Justin Andrews]

Not gonna stop me using fast chargers on my new SR when I get it, that's for sure...

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks Chris, it's always good to hear some positive feedback. I don't mind getting criticised too, as long as we keep moving forward. [emoji4]

On balance, I'm with Justin, Terry and everyone else who is willing to care less about the unlikely consequences. I also have faith that Zero would investigate an issue thoroughly enough to determine the root cause. If someone has been using a dodgy charging solution that somehow bypasses all the safeguards, then Zero shouldn't have to carry the cost. The risk of using an Elcon or Diginow based on Terry's info is negligible. The care being taken to test this new Diginow charger thoroughly and the people involved in the project gives me complete confidence.

I'm still a little concerned about how less informed customers might view the warranty situation, although I'm sure many won't even ask the question at the point of sale. Hopefully the worriers will be motivated to find this forum and will have their fears ameliorated.

I think this forum has an absolutely vital part to play in this fledgling industry. I've spent hardly any time on other forums relating to ICE bikes that I've actually owned!

[Cortezdtv]

I think they should spill the beans....


Everyone keeps saying thru dealers....? So does this mean its going to cost 3500 from only zero dealers?



The warrentee thing.... Well its kinda a big deal!!!! And if dginow is working with zero and selling it at dealers only now.... i dont see why Zero cant hologate it for charging their bikes if they dont and it truely does void the warrentee.... A lot less are going to buy one.... Why would you it voids the warrentee on more than 85% of the cost of the bike....

[Electric Cowboy]

Updates coming along well with a big thank you to Electric Terry!!!!

[Ndm]

Forgive me if its been stated but what are the dimensions, I'm curious about it fitting in a top box with my helmet etc, or would it fit in the e21 side cases

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Forgive me if its been stated but what are the dimensions, I'm curious about it fitting in a top box with my helmet etc, or would it fit in the e21 side cases

The form factor was chosen to fit in the bracket under the tank designed for the OEM Power Tank, so it's relatively compact.

I believe we noticed that it is too wide for a Givi E21 side case, though. A 30+ liter side case should handle it better, although it's quite heavy so a top case placement would be better (unless you heavily counterweight it), and really the tank position is best for vehicle dynamics and stability of the installation. One concern is routing the high-load cabling, for example.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I think only Terry could say how well a top box install works yet. I look forward to hearing how his testing worked out.

[Ndm]

If I were to get one I would put it in the "tank" area on my current 2013 "S" , but down the road if a new bike were to suddenly appear with a power tank I was wondering where I could fit it without loosing the functionality of my top box as a helmet storage area

[Electric Terry]

It works extremely well in a top case.  However with the standard Zero top case it's not big enough to hold both the supercharger and a full face helmet at the same time.  I bought a locking clip from Cycle Gear and lock my helmet to the bike through the D rings and passenger footpeg bracket holes.  Works perfect.

Although I am going to test a 55 liter top case soon to see if I can hold a helmet and a supercharger.  (or in my case perhaps one day 2 superchargers )

However it is ultimately designed to fit where a powertank would go, so keep that in mind.

I am glad to hear that lots of my recommendations are going into the production units.  I know this has caused the product release to be delayed by a bit, but in the end I think you all will appreciate it even more.

Thanks everyone for being patient.  I know Electric Cowboy and the guys at DigiNow appreciate it too.

It's awesome to see the production line in full swing!  Should be real soon I would guess that they arrive for those who preordered.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

It works extremely well in a top case.  However with the standard Zero top case it's not big enough to hold both the supercharger and a full face helmet at the same time.  I bought a locking clip from Cycle Gear and lock my helmet to the bike through the D rings and passenger footpeg bracket holes.  Works perfect.

Although I am going to test a 55 liter top case soon to see if I can hold a helmet and a supercharger.  (or in my case perhaps one day 2 superchargers )

A Givi Maxia case is amazing, like a car trunk. I'm going to transfer my V-Strom's case over to my Zero pretty soon.

Did you permanently route your cable through a hole in the case or do you just run it into the Anderson port after opening the case?

Two superchargers would be insane. But I think that's your role.

However it is ultimately designed to fit where a powertank would go, so keep that in mind.

I am glad to hear that lots of my recommendations are going into the production units.  I know this has caused the product release to be delayed by a bit, but in the end I think you all will appreciate it even more.

Thanks everyone for being patient.  I know Electric Cowboy and the guys at DigiNow appreciate it too.

It's awesome to see the production line in full swing!  Should be real soon I would guess that they arrive for those who preordered.

I'm glad to hear this, and thankful that El Niño weather has dampened my itch to go touring while they tweak the product.

[Electric Terry]

Brian for now I just open the case and connect the Anderson cable.  I have to open the case to plug in the J1772 anyway.  Takes about 15 seconds for the whole deal.  Perhaps if I get a larger case I might drill holes in the case to permanently run the cables and make a hole for the J1772 as well, but it's so easy now, I'm not sure it's worth the effort.