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[Lecram]

I am not sure whether the high torque option will increase or decrease the range.
The main energy consumption factor is the air resistance. That won't change. The efficiency of a combustion engine is also dependent on the rpms, I guess an electric engine not that much. At the other hand, the acceleration with the smaller gear will theoretically use less energy.
Good stuff for thoughts!

[Ndm]

The one thing I wonder is can you leave the gear on the front (motor) and change your rear sprocket and belt to suit, the high speed gearing and high torque gearing use the same front drive sprocket so just switching rear pulley and belt will send you back and forth between torque and speed, I'd like to see how it affects the range either way, anyone tried this?

[Cortezdtv]

smaller tooth will decrease range


You would have to have custom pockets for the rear made, and you have to go to a chain first
I don't know anyone who makes the drive pullies, if I did I'd have a belt on my go kart this time around

But I don't know where to source a belt that short.... So chain it is

[Doug S]

I am not sure whether the high torque option will increase or decrease the range.
The main energy consumption factor is the air resistance. That won't change. The efficiency of a combustion engine is also dependent on the rpms, I guess an electric engine not that much.

I agree. Gearing changes the torque/power delivery, but it has no effect on the primary losses, of which air resistance is the huge majority. And I think Lecram's right, these bikes are so efficient through their entire operating range that a gearing change isn't going to have much effect on range.

[Ndm]

True, physics will dictate what energy you use, the driven pulley and smaller belt are all part of the high speed gearing kit, the front pulley is the same as the torque option, making it easier to switch back and forth (if you don't mind removing the tire and swingarm)

[Cortezdtv]

No.... smaller front gear will give you less range.  Period.... End of conversation.  How much you can go on a debate about that all day.... But it WILL be less

[Lecram]

No.... smaller front gear will give you less range.  Period.... End of conversation.  How much you can go on a debate about that all day.... But it WILL be less

OK, so you say that it will decrease the range and we are not allowed to disagree? That's an interesting way to discuss this. If you are so confident, you will undoubtedly have a clear evidence for this. I am curious.

[Ndm]

Cortez, forums can be used to advance ones understanding, I simply wanted a basis of comparison, zero lists alternate options for the 2013 s/ds, stock gearing 28/132 or 25/98 high speed or 25/ 132 high torque, I'm curious of the benefits and downfalls and wanted to hear from someone who may have first hand experience

[grmarks]

How much more range does the high speed gearing offer? I'm not a torque or speed junkie either way,but a little added range would be helpful, 2013 s is good enough for me and my commute, but I do engage in a little throttle twisting every now and then!

Riding around the suburbs (gently with traffic 60-80km/hr) I get 2km to 1% of charge (but I have never gone below 40% soc). Mixed, freeway/suburb, I get 1.5km to 1%
so if I get a full 100% from the battery then that would be 200km or 150km respectivly (no power tank).

for me that is plenty - as I said I have never had the battery below 40%. 

[Cortezdtv]

No.... smaller front gear will give you less range.  Period.... End of conversation.  How much you can go on a debate about that all day.... But it WILL be less

OK, so you say that it will decrease the range and we are not allowed to disagree? That's an interesting way to discuss this. If you are so confident, you will undoubtedly have a clear evidence for this. I am curious.

Um no you can't disagree with  physics... It's a law just like ohms law.... They don't change



It's really simple if your motor pulley gets smaller the distance traveled over 1000 rotations is less... There is NO arguing that.... If you put the 98 on the rear at the same time, the bike is going to be really really slow off the line and if you baby it off the line you will increase range like from Terry's quotes it will add up to about 10-15% more range. If you have the 25/98 and you go around flogging the throttle you will use more power than with the stock gearing because you will be pumping huge amperage to make up for the gearing trying to accelerate at the same rate with much much taller gearing ending at much higer speeds. The fx with the 25/98 or i took it even farther and left my 28 on the front is very slow of the line but will accelerate up past 100 with ease with the high speed gearing but dont expect it to accelerate even remotely close to the same rate.... up at 50 mph and higher the high speed gearing will be accelerating much quicker than thank stock where stock is topped out, the high speed will supposidly push you to 120+
Maybe KrazyED will chime in here we have disscussions many a time, well more so me asking for advise and what the final speeds might be, Thank you Ed!!!




Is that more the answer you wanted.....?


if you want more top speed, or potential range I would look into getting a slightly smaller rear sprocket if you already have a chain.
If you have a belt look into getting your hands on a 30 tooth front belt or even the 32tooth, which is insanely big, it will also bring the acceleration way down, but top speed up a fair amount....



wow this keyboard on the ipad is so much better than the phone what have i been doing my whole life!

[Doug S]

Um no you can't disagree with  physics... It's a law just like ohms law.... They don't change



It's really simple if your motor pulley gets smaller the distance traveled over 1000 rotations is less... There is NO arguing that....

That's true, and nobody's arguing with you about that. But that doesn't mean it costs more energy to go the same distance! Because the shorter (numerically higher) gear ratio means the load on the motor is lower -- that's exactly what gearing does -- it doesn't have to work as hard, so though you go less distance per revolution, the motor is doing less work per revolution, and if the efficiency of the motor doesn't change, it winds up a wash. If you have a motor (perhaps an ICE) that's more efficient with the lower gear, it can actually cause a decrease in fuel used to go the same distance.

Be careful with the absolutes. I've been an Engineer for 31 years now and the one consistent thing I find is that there are few if any absolutes in this business.

[Cortezdtv]

Without any of my own riding terry has openly stated that 55mph ish is the maximum efficient for zero

And he also proved that the high speed gearing is most efficient



You guys are asking if the faster accelerating gears are going to be more efficient... Well the other simple answer is
They are going to be better at accelerating, more efficient at accelerating, not more efficient overall.....

[Lecram]

When we talk about physics, it costs a certain amount of energy to keep the bike rolling at a certain speed. The power is only needed to withstand the resistance. That's independent from the rpms of the engine. So theoretically, the energy use should be equal.

[Cortezdtv]

When we talk about physics, it costs a certain amount of energy to keep the bike rolling at a certain speed. The power is only needed to withstand the resistance. That's independent from the rpms of the engine. So theoretically, the energy use should be equal.

If your bike went 100 mph at 100%throttlr with the gearing and you make it go 60mph at that same 100% throttle by only changing the gearing.   You think the bike that tops out at 60 is going to be more efficient than the bike that tops out at 100??? If they are both traveling a constant 55mph? Furthermore you think the motor/bike going with top speed of 60 is going 55mph is going to draw the same amount of power as the 100mph bike going at  55% of its throttle....


Really???

[Lecram]

When we talk about physics, it costs a certain amount of energy to keep the bike rolling at a certain speed. The power is only needed to withstand the resistance. That's independent from the rpms of the engine. So theoretically, the energy use should be equal.

If your bike went 100 mph at 100%throttlr with the gearing and you make it go 60mph at that same 100% throttle by only changing the gearing.   You think the bike that tops out at 60 is going to be more efficient than the bike that tops out at 100??? If they are both traveling a constant 55mph? Furthermore you think the motor/bike going with top speed of 60 is going 55mph is going to draw the same amount of power as the 100mph bike going at  55% of its throttle....


Really???

You think in combustion engine technology, and that's wrong. An EV doesn't have a throttle. So if you ride at max speed with 100% accelerator open, the speed will be limited by the max. engine revs, that is 6000 rpm. That has nothing to do with an open throttle or air resistance. So your speed is limited by the maximum power you allow by the accelerator against the air resistance. And that power is the same with a smaller and bigger gear.