Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MostlyBonkers]

On the marketing front, perhaps a campaign to address range anxiety might work? Not much point until fast charging I'd sorted though. Analogies with charging phones at night are helpful.  It's very frustrating when your phone run out of charge and you're  about to go on your commute. That's why those external batteries are so popular. Something the size of a lipstick is enough to keep you going until you're at your desk or home and can plug back in. Fast charging is the equivalent.

I thought it was sad that Justin had to travel to the UK demo by train. With fast charging he could have ridden down on his zero.

[benswing]

I really do not understand that Zero don't want support the riders with the Chademo option. That's one of the main wishes of their customers and they are really deaf for this. Bad attitude.

My sense is that they got burned pretty bad by the initial adopters who found they couldn't charge at every CHAdeMO station.  In some cases people had 1 station in mind along their regular route and if that didn't work then they bought and paid to install an expensive outlet that didn't meet their needs. 

Fortunately there are some 3rd party vendors looking to figure it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Justin Andrews]

I thought it was sad that Justin had to travel to the UK demo by train. With fast charging he could have ridden down on his zero.

Were the demo a week or two later I would have done as well, as my fast charging rig was being built at the time.

Fortunately there are some 3rd party vendors looking to figure it out.

I'd be interested in that as well.

[Erasmo]

It's not the gas price that made me buying my DS, but the government rebates that encouraged me to buy one. In Holland, the price of petrol is for 70% determined by fixed taxes so cheaper oil will barely drop the prices

Wait what rebate? From the provincie?

No, The 'Kleinschaligheidsinvesteringsaftrek' (28%) and the 'Milieu Investerings Aftrek' (36%). That's for self employed people only and gives a lot of tax deduction. So the nett price of the bike is about 1/3 - 1/4 of the catalog price. And there is no road tax for the electric bikes.

Ah yes the sole reason why the Model S is the best selling EV in the Netherlands. With those prices you'd be stupid not to go electric.

I really do not understand that Zero don't want support the riders with the Chademo option. That's one of the main wishes of their customers and they are really deaf for this. Bad attitude.

My sense is that they got burned pretty bad by the initial adopters who found they couldn't charge at every CHAdeMO station.  In some cases people had 1 station in mind along their regular route and if that didn't work then they bought and paid to install an expensive outlet that didn't meet their needs. 

Fortunately there are some 3rd party vendors looking to figure it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Such a shame the pulled the plug because people where too lazy to investigate if the one station on their route was compatible.

[MichaelJ]

It's not the gas price that made me buying my DS, but the government rebates that encouraged me to buy one. In Holland, the price of petrol is for 70% determined by fixed taxes so cheaper oil will barely drop the prices

Wait what rebate? From the provincie?

No, The 'Kleinschaligheidsinvesteringsaftrek' (28%) and the 'Milieu Investerings Aftrek' (36%). That's for self employed people only and gives a lot of tax deduction. So the nett price of the bike is about 1/3 - 1/4 of the catalog price. And there is no road tax for the electric bikes.

Ah yes the sole reason why the Model S is the best selling EV in the Netherlands. With those prices you'd be stupid not to go electric.

I really do not understand that Zero don't want support the riders with the Chademo option. That's one of the main wishes of their customers and they are really deaf for this. Bad attitude.

My sense is that they got burned pretty bad by the initial adopters who found they couldn't charge at every CHAdeMO station.  In some cases people had 1 station in mind along their regular route and if that didn't work then they bought and paid to install an expensive outlet that didn't meet their needs. 

Fortunately there are some 3rd party vendors looking to figure it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Such a shame the pulled the plug because people where too lazy to investigate if the one station on their route was compatible.

Erasmo, it is not necessarily that the customer was lazy.  Zero themselves do not have endless money to acquire and test against every CHAdeMO from every manufacturer.  You could say that Zero was lazy by letting customers do the testing for them.  Or you could say that manufacturers were lazy by not complying with the specification to the extent that Zero's implementation would be compatible.

[MichaelJ]

Well, I was thinking in terms of advancing the industry, which needs the general public to buy into the EV concept to keep production numbers high enough to expand the technology and keep companies like Zero in business.  If people don't buy electric vehicles because of cheap gas and manufacturers can only sell a thousand or so a year to enthusiasts, then that is not going to further the sport, advance the technology , save the planet - and quiet the neighborhood.

It doesn't help that governments seem to be loosing their enthusiasm for electric vehicles.  Instead of supporting them through continuing rebates and the like, some states in the West seem to be trying to think of ways to make electric vehicles pay more taxes by raising their vehicle-specific yearly licensing fees.  A proposal in California is to have all electric vehicles (no mention was made of exempting motorcycles) pay an additional $100 each year (over and above the usual fee which is based upon initial purchase price) on their registration fee to compensate the State for them not paying gas taxes at the pump.  I believe Oregon and Washington have similar plans in mind.

If these legislators would get their heads out of their asses long enough to think about it they would realize that electric motorcycles solve the one thing that they hate the most, loud noise.  Instead they create silence.   

I might add that virtually every IC motorcycle forum that I frequent has a large number of IC motorcycle owners who are inquiring about purchasing a loud exhaust system or after-market muffler to replace the quiet stock system. As near as I can tell, the louder the better.  Even many (apparently) mature BMW owners seem to want to save as many lives as they can by making a bunch of racket. Personally, what I like most about my Zero is that it is quiet.    

And, with regard to legislators and the general public: quiet means "out of mind" and "out of mind" means fewer restrictive motorcycle laws.   

Richard, WA is already charging EVs (motorcycles included) this extra $100 per year.  It doesn't stop me from riding my Brammo, though.

That said, Washington state says they'll earmark that money to fund EV infrastructure (charging stations).  Possibly also road repair.  Hopefully, this will be in the form of L2 (J1772) installations in cities and possibly also rest stops, both of which my Brammo could take advantage of.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

[Lecram]

I really do not understand that Zero don't want support the riders with the Chademo option. That's one of the main wishes of their customers and they are really deaf for this. Bad attitude.

My sense is that they got burned pretty bad by the initial adopters who found they couldn't charge at every CHAdeMO station.  In some cases people had 1 station in mind along their regular route and if that didn't work then they bought and paid to install an expensive outlet that didn't meet their needs. 

Fortunately there are some 3rd party vendors looking to figure it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now they got burned pretty bad because of the lack of DC fast charging options. Just early adopters understand that there are some limitations when they communicate this clearly. In Holland, almost all Chademo chargers support 100VDC. Some tests with these chargers were successful and Zero stil doesn't provide this option here. I could live with a limited number of Chademo chargers. And we don't have an insane culture of take others to court if we don't like them.

[Erasmo]

Now they got burned pretty bad because of the lack of DC fast charging options. Just early adopters understand that there are some limitations when they communicate this clearly. In Holland, almost all Chademo chargers support 100VDC. Some tests with these chargers were successful and Zero stil doesn't provide this option here. I could live with a limited number of Chademo chargers. And we don't have an insane culture of take others to court if we don't like them.

50 actually. I haven't seen a ChaDeMo in the Netherlands yet that doesn't support the whole 50-500 range.

Erasmo, it is not necessarily that the customer was lazy.  Zero themselves do not have endless money to acquire and test against every CHAdeMO from every manufacturer.  You could say that Zero was lazy by letting customers do the testing for them.  Or you could say that manufacturers were lazy by not complying with the specification to the extent that Zero's implementation would be compatible.

If the charger is in the proper range(50-500V) you should be able to charge. A few small charging-manufacturers decided that 100V was the bottom range for them but that is easily found out, either with the spec sticker on the charger or by ringing the manufacturer.

[Burton]

Electrics don't need to worry about the gas price it could go down to $10 a barrel and not make a difference. Your savings isn't in gas cost it is in maintenance cost.

Draw up a spreadsheet over five years for your favorite gas bike, and electric, then add maitnence cost of both for 13k mikes a year. Electric will likely pay for itself after that time.

Don't forget to account for time cost if you do the work yourself. Idk about you but my time is valuable.

[Richard230]

Richard, WA is already charging EVs (motorcycles included) this extra $100 per year.  It doesn't stop me from riding my Brammo, though.

That said, Washington state says they'll earmark that money to fund EV infrastructure (charging stations).  Possibly also road repair.  Hopefully, this will be in the form of L2 (J1772) installations in cities and possibly also rest stops, both of which my Brammo could take advantage of.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

My complaint is that electric motorcycles are being charged the same flat $100 per year as auto EVs, even though electric motorcycles very likely travel only a fraction of the miles that an EV auto driver will and cause much less wear and tear on the roadway system - which granted isn't all that much to begin with.  It just doesn't seem fair to me, especially as electric motorcycles make up such a small number of the vehicles in the state. I think they should have been exempted from the EV yearly registration charge until the numbers of electric motorcycles at least reach more than a few hundred, or so.   

Not only will the state not get enough funds to paint a mile of center-line from the EV motorcycle registration fee, but you would think the legislators would appreciate having a class of motorcycles that are quiet and don't shake the neighborhood while saving lives as they pass by.   

[kingcharles]

I met with two Energica Ego riders at a Fastned DC charger. It is quite amazing to witness how fast these things charge.  It felt like we had only a short conversation when they got back on the bikes and left.
I was so surprised to see that they were at 90% charge already! They arrived with 30 something percent.

The were doing a tour of 900 kilometres in a single day...

Fast charging rocks!

Proof: