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[ZeroMC]

“Over the past two years, Zero Motorcycles has been committed to bringing the very best in electric motorcycle technology to market. Throughout this process our R&D team continually works to engineer new products and parts for our motorcycle line-up. From time to time, we will announce these changes, but for the most part they go unnoticed as motorcycles make their way out to customers. We understand and appreciate the questions that have been posted on the Electric Motorcycle web site as it provides all users with a forum to learn more about electric technology. For the record, Zero Motorcycles would never release a motorcycle to market that is not safe for the consumer and that has not been time tested. Our 24 hours of Electricross event proved that electric technology is here to stay. Each bike endured the hardship of a 24 hour race and completed nearly 5000 total miles for under $100. Every bike finished the race. 

We are proud that we have been able to bring three electric motorcycles to market that are high performance, reliable and fun to ride. However, with any product development process, you sometimes have to wait on outside vendors, state and federal agencies, approvals and other processes that might delay the on sale date. Our Zero S is a high performance street bike that is a blast to ride. We have been delayed as a result of some outside vendors working to ensure their parts meet Zero’s high quality standards.

As many of you have already experienced we put customers first at Zero and want nothing more that for each of our customers to have a great motorcycling experience. As always we welcome your feedback and if you ever have questions, feel free to reach out to us.”

Sincerely,
Zero Motorcycles Team
http://twitter.com/zeromc
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

[skadamo]

Thanks a lot for joining! Sounds like you did the right thing by delaying the S. You all have put a good number of bikes in a short time which is impressive. I know from other forums that many bikes get hung up in US DOT certification for a long time. Does being all electric make this process faster?

Looking forward to hearing everyone's impressions of the S (and MX and DS) as customers start to take delivery! I think Mike, the rep in Chicago should get the second S after Leno <-Yeah, I'm selfish

[zeromike]

Skadamo,
I have been told I will have my S the first week in August. I will keep you posted. We are all patiently awaiting the bike and have high expectations. Thank you Zero for making sure it's right before releasing.
Mike

[guity]

Well I am all for Zero, and I am all for this motorcycle, and I am definitely all for Zero making sure they put out a safe, quality product.  In fact, I would have been quite happy, about a year ago, if I had been told that the Zero S would come out in August of '09.  Or Even November '09.  Well maybe not REALLY happy, but happy enough to just bide my time and wait.  Instead I was told it would be out in December '08.  In December I was told it would be out in early spring '09.  In April I was told May, in May I was told June, and now it is August.  Each time I was suckered into waiting for it like a little kid waiting excitedly for a lollipop.  (Since this happened multiple times, I guess you would have to say a DUMB little kid waiting for a lollipop.)

At what point does a prospective customer stop attributing these delays to unforeseeable accidents or mistakes by third party suppliers, and start to think that the delays are due to poor planning by management accompanied by marketing folks shining people on with overly optimistic ETAs? 

[MUEV]

Guity-

You make a good point, however if you've ever tried to complete a lengthy, complicated project you know things almost always take longer than you expect and the are always hiccups you didn't foresee. Zero could've rushed shipment and sent you a bike on time that would have problems down the road. Instead they are working out each and every little kink, so when you do get your bike you'll be stoked and happily Motoring for quite some time.

And seeing as I'm about to hop on a kink free S to grab some dinner, I'd say your wait is almost over  

[guity]

MUEV, thanks for the post.  Right now I'm on the edge of just saving myself a heap of money and time by buying something else. I was just nursing my 1984 Honda 350 along as much as I could just to get to December '08, and now it looks more fitting for a convalescent hospital than a highway.  Can you tell more about your kink-free bike?  Does it start up fast enough from a standstill so that you can wheelie it?  How long/far will it go on a flat surface at 60 mph?  Will it go faster than 60mph?

Thanks for any info you can provide (or that any other Zero experts can provide, for that matter)!

[MUEV]

Hey Guity-

I'm not the wheelie popping type, plus we're filming with them tomorrow, so I'm trying to take it easy.  I can tell you that the bike doesn't hit nearly the same as the X or MX with the PRM.  It's real smooth from zero and seems to really start flying once you pass 15 or 20 mph.  Definitely didn't test the range, but will have better info for you tomorrow.

All I can say is- be patient, the bike is just about ready for prime time, is a HUGE head turner and a WHOLE lot of fun.  That 350 has a couple more days left in her.

[guity]

Thanks MUEV.  The older I get, the more I enjoy you marketing-type guys.  You kind of make the world go round with all your positive energy.  You bring an optimistic spin to everything that can make even ordinary objects seem special and magical.

However, in the interest of self preservation, sometimes I have to translate "marketing-speak".  When you answered my 3 questions above, the translated responses were:

1) No
2) I don't know and
3) (ignored)

Well, no matter.  We will all find out all the answers we need soon enough, I guess.  We might have to wait for Picasso to get hold of an 'S' and take apart the throttle to see how to adjust the from-standstill acceleration...

[picasso]

Im going to guess its like the design on the X/MX the control box on the handle bar for those guys controls the ramp of the throttle. If zero changes that by speed its a new system by them. Not sure what controller is on the S, it might be set in that. But I'm sure its an altrax and I dont know of any with speed input.

Does anyone know the controller and motor the Zero S is using?


I canceled my Zero S deposit so it might be some time till I get to play with one. Also need to save for Aptera, Im number 140 on this list. But I do have money burning a hole in my pocket so I'm thinking Brammo Enertia.

[MUEV]

I'm not trying to spin anything guity.  If anything, you're trying to spin my quick and honest response into "marketing speak".  As I said, the bikes were in for a TV shoot, they were hot off the factory floor and I was told to "take it easy" on them.  So, no wheelies and no full discharges.  The bike does 60, but not much more than that.

The issue is just that we're living in different worlds:
You ordered a product a long time ago and have waited patiently, but your patience is wearing thin.  I completely understand your frustration.
I wrote that last reply while spending three days with 2 X extreme's & 2 MX's all with the Baja Designs light kit and three brand new S's hanging out and shooting with some very good riders.  All the riders and dozens of passer-by's were blown away with the bikes.  I'm excited about the future of this company and am proud to represent them.  I apologize if my reply was too rosy for you.

Picasso- You can't control the throttle on the dash like the X & MX.  They're using the PRM 132 in the S, but I didn't get a look at the controller.  It's geared taller and has more weight, thus not as quick from a standstill.  If you're looking for that super quick acceleration, I'd suggest the MX with the PRM and the light kit.  They went through the ringer for three days straight and came through flawlessly.

I'll post a link to some pics and a recap soon.

[guity]

Sorry MUEV, didn't mean to make you so defensive.  We don't live in 2 different worlds, we just live in one world where you are trying to sell motorcycles, and I am trying to buy one.  When I ask you if the S will do a wheelie from a standstill, I'm not really interested in whether or not you are the wheelie type, or if you have a lot of spare time to pop wheelies, or even if you spend a lot of time hanging out with famous motocross riders who think the zero bikes are hot.  I just want to see, "Yes, it can do a wheelie from a standstill", or "No, it can't do a wheelie from a standstill." 

I'm not your enemy, I'm actually looking for reasons to buy one of your motorcycles.  So you can give me the flat unvarnished truth if you want to to.  If it makes you feel better, tell me I'm a flaming a-hole.  But just feel free to lay the straight information on the line. 

So now, in response to a helpful tidbit you laid out in that last post, I'm off to look into whether it is feasible for me to get an MX and convert it to street use.  The only problem I can see is that I need something to go at least  55 mph...

[MUEV]

Just trying to let you know where I was coming from.  I am no one's enemy.

The MX out of the box (with the PRM) tops out at about 50 (or just under).  We put a little taller gear on our X with the PRM and were getting around 55.  The Mars seemed to have a little better top end, actually, but not same torque.

[guity]

OK, so if you get an MX ($8,250) with a perm motor upgrade ($1,100) and stick a light kit ($795) on it, ship it for $300 and pay $938 in CA/LA taxes, the whole thing costs around $11,383.  (Eventually there is also license/registration, which should be a few hundred dollars more.)  It should be possible to get the machine to go close to 55 mph, and as an aggressive driver I should see a range of 30 miles.   30 miles is fine because my commute is only 20.  55 mph isn't ideal on the PCH or a small chunk of the 10 freeway, but it is livable.  More importantly the machne should jump out from the stoplights fast enough to get me out in the open and keep me from being stuck lane-splitting between a bunch of cars all going 50 mph.

So when you line up options that seem like viable possibilities to me, they are:

1) As mentioned, the MX option, costing around $11,383.

2) Buy the Zero S in August for a total of $11,225 (again before license and registration).  Range more like 50 or 60 miles, speed more like 60 mph.  Initial acceleration abilities not as sharp as the MX.

3) Wait 4 months and buy the same Zero S and get a $1,500 rebate: $9,725

4) Buy a Suzuki DR-Z400SM (that gets 65 mpg, goes up to 90 mph, handles well off-road) for $7,000 including tax and license and registration.

I can't tell you how many posts I've seen on various web sites where some wise-acre would present options like these as if they were a no-brainer -- you should buy the Suzuki, right?  That's not how I feel about it.  Even if I do get the Suzuki it would just be a temporary thing until the other options improved a little bit.  But I welcome any opinions that anybody might want to share about which of these options seems best...

[ultrarnr]

Guity,

    The real unknown factor in your options is the delivery of the Zero S. Sure we are being told right now they will ship in August. But that could easily change to September or later. I think the hard part is to determine just how long are you willing to wait on a Zero-S. If you cancel now and they actually ship next month it is easy to say you should have just waited a few more weeks. But what if you cancel now and they don't actually ship until December? At that point cancelling now would have been a much better decision. It is really a tough call. When I talked with sales the beginning of June they sounded really confident that as soon as the DOT certification was complete the bikes were being shipped. A lot has happened since then that has delayed the bikes. Similar things could happen with the August ship dates. And is the MX actually being shipped yet? Need to determine that as well. It might be that the Zero X is the only model that is actually being shipped to customers.
   I fully understand what you are going through as I am going through the same process. The ship dates are always being pushed back a month at a time so it is easy to take the approach of "just another month". But that can easily turn into 4-6 months or more.
  In the end you make a decision based on the best information you have available. Only hind sight will determine if it was a good one. Good luck!

[guity]

Thanks ultrarnr,

I think you totally correct about trying to predict the ship dates.  The only good thing about the ship date aspect is that as a factor, it makes the option of waiting for the rebate more attractive.  I.E., if the ship date ended up being in November it might not make much difference because the CA rebate probably won't be available until November anyway.

I just realized that I have short-changed Zero a little bit in laying out the 4 options above because I didn't figure in the tax credits, which could add up to another $1,500 off.  (I tend to not count those because my wife the accountant usually ends up with any refund checks from the IRS.)

So the options look more like:

1) As mentioned, the MX option, costing around $11,383 - $1,500 (tax-related refunds) = $9,883

2) Buy the Zero S in August for a total of $11,225 (again before license and registration).  Range more like 50 or 60 miles, speed more like 60 mph.  Initial acceleration abilities not as sharp as the MX.  $11,225 - $1,500 (tax-related refunds) = $9,725

3) Wait 4 months and buy the same Zero S and get a $1,500 rebate: $9,725 - $1,500 (tax-related refunds) = $8,225

4) Buy a Suzuki DR-Z400SM (that gets 65 mpg, goes up to 90 mph, handles well off-road) for $7,000 including tax and license and registration.

That brings the cost numbers berween the options more into line, though after looking through Ebay I am starting to think I could get the Suzuki DR-Z400SM for $6,000 rather than $7,000...