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[Ndm]

Exactly,you hit the nail on the head Ted! If it's an investment you're looking for play the markets, if you want to ride,fork out the money and enjoy, looking at any self destructive machine that wears out as an investment is foolish! IMO

[dkw12002]

There are rebates on current models of Kawasaki motorcycles among many others almost from the time the model is introduced. It's a way to boost sales. On the other hand 10% isn't a lot and well within the amount you can usually negotiate down from the asking price on expensive bikes. I hope nobody is just paying the msrp then adding on taxes and add-ons to arrive at a fair price for a new Zero. In the US at least it is understood you never pay sticker price for motorcycles or cars. 

[Tater McTatums]

I bought my SR from Carbon Negative shortly before they closed their doors. Since he didn't stock the SR and it had to be special ordered it was pay MSRP + tax or no Zero for me. I also had to pay the $500.00 freight charge to have it shipped from the factory to Brooklyn.  Oh, and $5.00 for tire disposal fees.

[Doug S]

In the US at least it is understood you never pay sticker price for motorcycles or cars.

That's an overgeneralization. For niche vehicles in poorly-supplied markets, elasticity is not nearly that great. Many of us (myself included) were completely unable to dicker the price down from the MSRP; I did manage to get a new pair of gloves included, and half off a new helmet, but many people haven't even had that much luck.

[teddillard]

If by "elasticity" you mean margin, that's exactly right.  In the early days I had several conversations with dealers for both Brammo and Zero, and there is very, very little margin - it's very much like the digital camera market in that respect.  The dealer doesn't make money on the bike, or the camera, they make money on the accessories.  It was common that we'd make more on selling a camera bag than the $6000 camera that went into it. 

Considering they make much less on service than a gas bike, it's really astounding they can keep the doors open at all.  I did a story that interviewed Harlan at Hollywood, and his biggest money-maker was this little Chinese scooter he sold to DUI offenders.  He joked he felt like the AA of Hollywood... 



Here's that story:
http://www.homepower.com/articles/vehicles/all-electric/personal-electric-vehicles

[xmjsilverx]

Well I didn't buy the bike as an investment and I knew before hand it was going to be rapidly changing technology.  I assumed next years model would have improvements and may even be cheaper.  And I also assumed if it was a big enough increase in range or power I would loose the money on my bike and upgrade.  But this isn't a digital camera market or a flat screen TV market.  The manufacturer should realize dropping the price so soon after that model year release was going to hurt those that just bought that bike.  A sale would be totally different as it wouldn't affect the resale.  They had to know they were going to drop these prices 6 months before this happened and I feel it is poor judgement on their part.  As I said I knew I would loose resale value quick in this venture, but every single one of us making a $17k purchase hopes to retain as much of that resale value as possible.  If you are ok throwing $17k to the wind then you have more money than brains.  I am all for progressing EV's but it needs to be done fairly gradually. Drop the price $1000 each year, make improvements, and gain more customers, don't hurt the ones you do have.

[Doug S]

If you are ok throwing $17k to the wind then you have more money than brains.  I am all for progressing EV's but it needs to be done fairly gradually. Drop the price $1000 each year, make improvements, and gain more customers, don't hurt the ones you do have.

In what way did you "throw $17k to the wind"? You bought a known commodity at a known price. If you don't like what you got for your money, who's to blame for that? Further, who are you to dictate the market? Zero doesn't have a lot of say in what fair market value is at any point in time, you certainly don't even have as much as they do. Virtually everybody else agrees prices are still to high on EVs, and most of us agree that they should bring the prices down as much as they can, as fast as they can. THAT'S how the market will grow, not walking on eggshells so they don't offend the sensibilities of recent persnickety buyers.

If you got the same deal everybody else got, i.e. a quick-charger, jacket and gloves, I think you should count yourself lucky. The rest of us paid more in 2014 and got nothing...other than the treat of having been riding our bikes longer! Some people are never satisfied, I guess.

And Ted, no, I meant elasticity. Margin and elasticity are two related but very different things.

[JasonS]

I got Zero's email offering the charger and leather jacket, or textile jacket and gloves yesterday.

I think it's a nice gesture - I'd prefer cash, but it's a very nice gesture.

Anyone wanna buy a charger - never used, and a jacket or a jacket and some gloves?

Seriously, I think I'm gonna email and ask them what the 'cash' option is, if any.  I don't have a need for the charger, and I have enough garments that I like.  I'd need a 'tall', anyway, and they're not offering that.  Maybe I'll get a small set that the kids could grow into and out of...

[firepower]

Any price reduction is good, there have been lots of complaints if high cost compared d to ICE bikes. Australian price for 2015 SR is $26500 (2014 SR $25500)compared to USA price of $16000. I wish zero would keep prices equivalent in other countries.
The equivalent price should be $22000. Including  currency exchange and taxes. Canada and Australia pricing should be similar. Australia still waiting for Zeros to be delivered.

[MichaelJohn]

Well I didn't buy the bike as an investment and I knew before hand it was going to be rapidly changing technology. (snip) As I said I knew I would loose resale value quick in this venture (snip) If you are ok throwing $17k to the wind then you have more money than brains.  I am all for progressing EV's but it needs to be done fairly gradually. Drop the price $1000 each year, make improvements, and gain more customers, don't hurt the ones you do have.

If you didn't buy the bike as an investment and you knew it would lose (not "loose") resale value then you shouldn't be upset. Zero management has the right and the obligation to themselves to run their business succesfully. I was happy to see the price drop as it should attract more buyers and help Zero's bottom line thus improving their chances of surviving as a company which is something we should all want. As far as throwing $17,000 to the wind that is a ridiculous statement. I got a very cool motorcycle for my money...it was a quality of life investment not a financial one. More money than brains? Well, my brains got me to a point in life where I can afford this bike without a thought or a care about resale value. I also think that Zero's offer of free equipment goes above and beyond and I have already written them a letter telling them so. They were under no obligation at all to do that...it's a classy move whether we need what they are offering or not.

[teddillard]

And Ted, no, I meant elasticity. Margin and elasticity are two related but very different things.

Not sure what you mean, then... I've never heard that term applied to a market, or pricing.  Nevertheless, I think we're on the same page.

(edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_%28economics%29 - still confused about how that applies to your comment, but no matter.)

[teddillard]

Dammit - thinking about this in the shower this morning

I'm guessing by "elasticity" in the economic sense, you're saying that the dealer isn't going to budge on the price because he knows that he can sell the bike for full MSRP to the next guy if you don't want to pay?  (ref: If I lower the price of my product, how much more will I sell?")

Me and Economics?  Not so much... 

But yeah, I think there's that, but also there just isn't a lot of margin for the dealer to mess with.  The guy I worked for in High School used to say he had to make 20% at the end of the day, and that meant selling some stuff at 200% an some at 5%.  Just to give you an idea, the margins that were mentioned to me (back in 2010-11, mind you) were about 7% on a bike - a little more on a Zero, and less on a Brammo. 

I can't remember what the deal is with Zero, but in the camera biz we had to buy our cameras outright, or lease them, even our demo units.  I don't think that's how the automotive market works, quite, but not sure...  At any rate, there's a cost for just keeping the bikes in the shop, which chips away at your margin by the day... 

[benswing]

How many times on this forum have we asked for lower prices.  Now we got them and people are complaining? 

Weird.

I understand the concern about resale, but personally I never thought there would be much of a resale market anyway.  Just a fun product and I intend to get my money's worth riding it.

[Ndm]

I find it strange as well,I'm saving up for one(I never buy toys without having the money) and it seems to me we're missing the most important part of the price reduction,  zero is offering free accessories to the people who bought this model year,a very rare thing to happen and one hell of a nice gesture,so I say good job zero!

[firepower]

I wonder if 2016 model will be higher voltage ? they need to get rid of charger stock too?