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[DynoMutt]

Should the bulk charger be made to disengage and turn off when the terminal voltage is reached as well?  If so, perhaps some arduino would need to be connected to the sensor lines somehow with a relay to switch the AC side?

[DynoMutt]

So, here's another problem.
Onboard charger + 6kW bulk charger = ~7.2-7.4kW

Many J1772 sources in the field balk at anything in the 6+ kW range.

Choosing a 6kW bulk charger may hinge on whether and how easy it is to de-tune it to as low as 3kW

Advice?

I like the ESP120s, but I reckon that they'd not be so flexible in that regard.

In any case, correct me if I'm wrong, as I know how to plug wires together, use a multimeter, and maybe pop some solder points and resolder, perhaps that's it.

[Burton]

DynoMutt some of these chargers have adjustable input current or you can swap out resistors to lower it. This would obviously lower the output current as well however.

The RSP stacks have a huge range for input voltage and you can adjust the input current with a potentiometer on the top of the PCB as well as the voltage.

And I think you can add a voltage trimming knob via pin 3 on the 12 pin connector and ground to trim the output from 40% to 115% of rated voltage.

[Doug S]

Finally found the link someone posted earlier:  http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf

This is the pouch cell used in my 2014 SR, with lots of good information, particularly in the "Standard Charge Characteristics" graph. First thing I notice is that there is no "depleted" level where they recommend reduced charging current...the manufacturer allows full charging current all the way down (batteries are getting better all the time!). Second thing is that they recommend a 4.2V cutoff, which for 28 cells in series means you can legally charge up to 117.6V, at which point you hold the voltage constant while the current ramps down. Next I notice that the capacity (green line) is virtually max'ed out by the time you hit 4.2V per cell, with very little additional charging occurring after you hit CV mode. Finally, it seems like they consider a "typical" charge is at the 2C rate (12.5 A), but it's acceptable to charge at up to 25A (1C). Charging at 0.5C would exceed the manufacturer's rating for this cell.

So it seems like the manufacturer is perfectly fine with a very simple two-stage charging scheme: 1C charging current (CC mode) until the terminal voltage, then hold that voltage (CV mode). They don't even mention dropping the voltage afterwards to maintain full charge with a trickle, so apparently that's not necessary with this cell.

At this point, I've satisfied myself that Doc is completely correct. I'd worry more about mounting and installing the power supplies somehow so that they stay clean and dry but can get plenty of cooling air when operating.

[JefRo]

Note that 1C (25 amps) is for each battery pack of 28S cells. Since 4 battery packs are in parallel on the bike, 1C for the entire pack is 100 amps total. So 50 amps charge current, or 1/2 C is well within an acceptable charge rate.

[protomech]

Finally found the link someone posted earlier:  http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf

This is the pouch cell used in my 2014 SR, with lots of good information, particularly in the "Standard Charge Characteristics" graph. First thing I notice is that there is no "depleted" level where they recommend reduced charging current...the manufacturer allows full charging current all the way down (batteries are getting better all the time!). Second thing is that they recommend a 4.2V cutoff, which for 28 cells in series means you can legally charge up to 117.6V, at which point you hold the voltage constant while the current ramps down. Next I notice that the capacity (green line) is virtually max'ed out by the time you hit 4.2V per cell, with very little additional charging occurring after you hit CV mode. Finally, it seems like they consider a "typical" charge is at the 2C rate (12.5 A), but it's acceptable to charge at up to 25A (1C). Charging at 0.5C would exceed the manufacturer's rating for this cell.

0.5C is 12.5A, 2C would be 50A (per string).

A 13.5 kWh 2015 bike is 27x4 + 25 Ah = 133 Ah, so it can accept a significant amount of current.

[Doug S]

0.5C is 12.5A, 2C would be 50A (per string).

Geez...of course you guys are right. My brain was inverted for a moment there.

[trikester]

Better to invert the brain while sitting than to invert the bike while riding.

Did Confucius say that?

Trikester

[ultrarnr]

If you are going to use a single charger it has to be easily adjusted for input power. I have 2-2500 watt Elcons on my SR. Sometimes I can use both Elcons and the internal charger. But there are L2 systems out there that I can only use the 2 Elcons otherwise the breaker on the L2 systems keeps tripping. I have charged on Blink systems before that I could only use one Elcon and the internal charger on.

[MotoRyder]

Please excuse the slight tangent; I just wanted to mention that I love the level of discussion on this forum: civil, polite, helpful.  Thanks you all!

Proud to not be a Ditto-head, but totally agree w/ ptruchon.
This is a great forum for learning and sharing about Electric Motorcycles and discussions like this are awesome !!
Really appreciate all of the good info and topics and sharing of ideas.

[Burton]

Charging pr0n

wanted to test my charger before I go on a 200 mile journey tomorrow. A normal 1.5 hour trip will become a 3.5 hour trip according to my calculations but we will see.

I charged from about 5.67kw to 7.77kw in about 27 minutes if I recall consuming 2.3kw in the process so that is 91% efficiency! (this using the RSP's and the stock chargers with only a 200v DC supply :/)

Shows 5.09kw usage


Shows 200vdc and 24.9 amps ... Need to put it in a project box and put a high voltage sticker on the charging array.


Peaks around 50 amps if I recall

[Burton]

So I was thinking ...

Since we cannot charge with the RSP's in the rain or in humidity over 90% how would we supplement the charging stack with two elcons for trips when we know there is a possibility of rain?

That is, being able to use both sets of chargers at once if possible and only the elcons when not.

What gauge turginy wire would be needed for the run to the controller?
Would I have to "double up" my diodes on the RSP stack?
Would I have to increase the gauge of the turginy wires leading from the RSP's to the Anderson connector?
I assume the controller can handle the amps but could the battery or should I somehow trim it down?

Seriously thinking about doing this after I get my vetter cowl on the bike so I wont have to worry about leaving my bike alone while charging and/or rain or high humidity days we often get here on the east coast

[Burton]

Ride report





Trip details
200 miles round trip, charging stations plotted out every ~33 miles
Skipped first charge point since traffic was excessively slow and I had only 2 bars missing
Charged at my destination via 120v outlet but only got up to 75% before leaving.
Apparently left at 545pm and got home at 10:30pm making my trip home nearly 5 hours and my trip down about the same.
RSP-2000-48 chargers in series set to 114vdc (90% SOC) and stock charger used.

Things I learned from this trip:

I didn't see any free to use chargers where I could possibly use two J1772 at the same time. So having a dual stack might not be beneficial on the east coast.

.5C charging is so slow >__<  I know, I know ... better than stock.

It is fun to facetime people while you are charging and have them ask you where you are 

I really need to get this bike streamlined. I spent most of my time in a position where I was practically licking my headlight while I laid on the tank. It wasn't too comfortable for sure.

Charging stations marked as L2 J1772 at Chevy dealers are a joke. They are only 15 amps! Tripped the breaker as soon as I plugged in my RSP-2000 stack to the battery. The guy there said "they charge our volts," I didn't ask how long it took and instead drove down the street to another location. What a joke.

People want to talk about the bike a lot more when I am sitting next to it and they realize it is electric. The best person was a trucker who was trying to yell over his own truck while riding next to me at 45mph on the highway. "Is that electric?" He exclaimed, and with a head nod indicating yes he said "kick ass man," and gave me a thumbs up. ... Of course I couldn't really hear him over his truck so I was forced to read his lips lol

Charging stations are a PINA to find without a GPS if you have never been to one before. I taped instructions to several locations / exits to take as needed just incase and I still failed to find several the first time. Really need to bring a GPS next time.

Using my calculations had I gone 35mph for the full length of the trip I could have got to my destination in about 3 hours ... granted I would still have to charge but seriously it would have made more sense to go slower than faster.

[ultrarnr]

Burton,

Good points. The downside to using a single charger in the 6-7 kw range is that not all L2 stations can deliver that much power and you will trip circuit breakers. Try a Blink network charger. Highly doubt you can charge at one without tripping the breaker.

I have a GPS for my SR and put commonly used charging stations in it. Much easier to do it that way. Also make sure you have a way to charge your smart phone since they are great for killing time while charging but you can also deplete your battery.

[benswing]

Burton, well done!  Looks like an overall successful trip. 

Chevy Volts have an onboard 3.3kW charger, so that's why Chevy dealers have only 15A chargers.  They max out the Volt's capabilities, but aren't very helpful to anyone else besides early Nissan Leaf drivers (also 3.3kW).  Also, if Plugshare lists a charging station as being Voltec, then it is probably 15A.

Where did your ride take you?  If you go 200mi north you are near me, and if you go 200 miles south you are near ultrarnr. The Northeast corridor has quite a few locations where you can charge using 2 Level 2 connections, but south of you it is a bit sparse.